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News Link • Religion: Believers

Satan Temple Asks Oklahoma Legislature To Add Statue To Baphomet On State Grounds

• Jonathan Turley
It is a scene that would warm the cockles of every Satanic heart. In Oklahoma, the Satanic Temple has unveiled the design for a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan that it believes would go nicely at the Oklahoma state Capitol. After all, the legislature put a Ten Commandments monument on the site in 2012. So why not the comforting image of Baphomet, a goat-headed figure with horns, wings and a long beard for children to gather around and take strength from on school visits?  ...

6 Comments in Response to

Comment by Ed Price
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A Government is a temporary thing that exists for a time. Governments fall because of 4 basic reasons:

1. They are overthrown by other Governments;
2. Nature destroys them as in hurricanes and earthquakes;
3. They crumble from within, because the people within fight among themselves for supremacy.
4. A few Governments outlive their usefulness, and the people simply abandon them.

It seems that life is NOT a temporary thing, even though the individual lives of all living things seem to be temporary. Should life exist? Yes! Or it wouldn't exist. Should it be temporary? Yes... to show us that we need help to make it permanent.

In my below comment, "we" stands for human beings in general.

The universe is our mega-universe... includes everything that is included within it. Included would be the parallel universes that are a part of our "mega-universe." It does not include anything that is outside of our mega-universe, because such things are entirely incomprehensible to us, and entirely alien to the things that are included in the word "existence." If we (humans) could comprehend them, they would be part of our universe. Even the language of math does not make sense of anything that is truly outside of our mega-universe.

The conclusion was not meant to encompass everything that exists. It was meant to encompass everything that we (humans) understand as fact.

We as people have NOT found, for a fact, anything that shows enough complexity to bring anything in the universe into existence. Some of us may think we have. Some may feel they have. And we have found all kinds of things that "reproduce" some of the complexity. But nothing that could bring such complexity into existence. And we can't, simply because the complexity of it would have to be even beyond the complexity of our mega-universe, well beyond our comprehension. The closest we could come would be to simply say that the Creator exists.

However, if you examine my comments, you will find that I have made my share of mistakes.

Comment by Powell Gammill
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Personally, I laughed when I saw the design.  It would have scared the crap out of me when I was a kid.   

When politicians use religion to promote themselves they open up the door.  The bottom line is without government there is no issue.  The issue should not be about placing a statue (whatever) promoting Satan in a public park outside a government building.  It is not even about whether any religious or other people wishing to place their near and dear in this area.  It is whether this government should exist in the first place.

Comment by Ed Vallejo
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CORRECTION I attributed the comment to Powell when he just added the link below - my comments were directed towards Pure Trusts post.  My apologies.


Comment by Ed Vallejo
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 To begin with, I was going to comment "now the kids will have a new picture at Christmastime sitting on Baph's knee - won't that be super!" until I read Powell's comment.

I have my own proofs concerning the existence of God, and can expound on them at length.  I have some comments of my own, and questions regarding the ones posted though.

Part 1 is agreeable.  The Maker of a cookie is not as skilled as the Maker of the watch used to time the baking of the cookie.

Part 2 starts the fun.  I take it your subset 'we' stands for 'the inhabitants of Earth'?  If yes, then;

Part 3 I can also take it that "the universe" you refer to that "is one" does not include universes in or around our proximity.  Does your proof disclude them, or is there a possibility of not only their existence, but also of travel between them, and therefore interaction and discourse with their inhabitants?  And finally,

Part 5 stretches to the point of breaking when you allude that you have been everywhere in the universe (how else can one say that something does not exist anywhere in a given area?) and use it as basis for a conclusion. 




Comment by Ed Price
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From the article comments:

"Oklahoma opened a can of worms with its one true religion legislation.

"Civic ignorance is epidemic."


The Ten Commandments are universal laws. If everyone obeyed the Ten Commandments, there would be peace worldwide, and we would advance in science and all things good beyond our wildest dreams. This is universal law.

Satanism, or any world religion, is the upholding of that which is less than universal law. In the case of pure Satanism, it involves destruction.

The proof for the existence of God lies in the definition of the word "god" combined with the evidence of what exists. The definition(s) for "god" can be found in many places. So, what exists in nature and the universe?

What exists is an universe full of extreme complexity, right along side of every form of lesser complexity, down to simplicity, to the point of the simplistic. If everything were simplistically simple, or if everything were extremely complex, there might be no God. But since both exist together, and we are right in the middle of it all, that is the proof for God.

Here are the parts of what I mean.

1. We see all around us in the technology of our lives, that things that are complicated are being made by us. The more complex a piece of technology, the more knowledgeable and skilled must the maker be. An automobile is a far more complex mode of transportation than the horse and buggy. It takes much more knowledge and skill to make a car than it does to make a buggy. The point is, by our own experience, the more the complexity, the greater must be the maker.

2. All of our built and buildable technology comes about from observing nature, and using what it provides. There is NOTHING in our technology that comes about from outside of the examples, materials and energy of nature. Nature was there first. We take ALL of our "advancements" from nature. The point is, all our complexities of technology are taken from nature, which is far more complex than we are.

3. The universe is one. All the parts of the universe are connected in some form or fashion. Blackstone expresses this regarding universal law in the Second Section of the Introduction to his Commentaries - Even if you want to understand the universe as ONE without the idea of God interposed, you can do it using this section of  Blackstone's Commentaries. The point is, whatever formed the complexities of the universe, did so by being one in its direction, purpose, and ability - ONE.

4. Nature does NOT have a feature that explains where its complexities come from. The complexities exist. They support one another. They enhance one another. The even seem to be "self-creating" all around us. But there exists ABSOLUTELY NO EXAMPLE IN THE UNIVERSE REGARDING WHAT BROUGHT THE COMPLEXITIES INTO EXISTENCE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

The conclusion is, by deductive reasoning, combined with the definition of "God," that there is definitely a God who started this whole universe going. No other explanation can be made to fit the above 4 points combined with the definition.

Again, what does all this have to do with the article? Here's what. The Ten Commandments are UNIVERSAL LAW or at least part of it, set in place by God. All the rest of it, the things we call religions, are at best lesser methods for living peaceful lives, and at worst, methods for world domination, or even world destruction.

Comment by Powell Gammill
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