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Run - Hide - Fight / Dr. Steven Jones shares some private thoughts

Written by Subject: Revolutions, Rebellions & Uprisings
 
From Dr. Steven Jones (New Leaf):
 
Thanks for the ref, Griffiths.

Friends,

I woke up today with the strong confirmation that I need to spend more time WORKING to prepare. Consequently, I will be spending more time DOING now, less on forums and emails. If you have read this thread, you will sense the "calm urgency", expressed by several of us.
Personally working on:

1. One or two of places of refuge for family especially, in case of earthquake or riot-control by gov't. Please consider this if you happen to live along an earthquake-fault-zone or ANY big city. I say this as a scientist, not claiming revelation for others not in my stewardship. Our family has such a refuge-spot in Utah somewhere (not on the Wasatch front, obviously) and one in northern Missouri. On the latter, you may wish to consider:

https://post.craigslist.org/pvu/H/re...XotyowLm/4czxq
not too far from our refuge place in MO, interestingly. Prayerfully choose a place to go to (just a suggestion...).
 
Quote:
D&C 58: 25 Wherefore, let them bring their families to this land, as they shall counsel between themselves and me.
26 For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward.
 
2. Getting family members (and friends) ready to go if we need to. And I mean responsive to personal/stewardship promptings OR direct calls from the Prophets who have stewardship over us.

3. Keeping gas tank > half full, plus good "72- hour survival packs" in car.

4. Personal purification and readiness to heed the voice of the Spirit. Increased remembering of Jesus, my great goal and Friend.

I'll be back occasionally perhaps as time permits, but farewell for now.
See you at Adam-ondi-Ahman or the New Jerusalem I hope, if not sooner!
__________________
D&C 38:21-33 "I will be your king and watch over you...Hear my voice and follow me, and you shall be a free people, and ye shall have no law but my laws when I come, for I am your lawgiver, and what can stay my hand? ...The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will"
 
Dr. Jones (New Leaf):
 
Martial Law pre-planning: Run, Hide, Fight, or -- Cave in?
We have discussed various reasons that some form of martial law (including seizure of guns and ammo)-- as right after Katrina-- is likely to arise in the USA (and perhaps other countries). As Kissinger said, all it takes is a crisis, whether "real or promulgated", doesn't matter, and there arises a "great' opportunity.

So if we take as a starting point "some form of martial law (including seizure of guns and ammo)-"
Then what are our best options?

I suggest there are FOUR options with variations. If you can think of other distinct options, PLS raise them here!

1. Run -- e.g. to a place in mtns. where you have cached food and resources. (e.g. # 2, Lehi and Ishmael families)

2. Hide -- e.g. in a secret place you know of in your house or nearby

3. Fight -- e.g. if attacked, and you have weapons right at hand

4. Cave in -- e.g. give them your guns and ammo and "hoarded food" and go to the FEMA camp if they ask you to. (Most people took this option in New Orleans after Katrina, and suffered greatly in the Superdome and other "FEMA camps." Consider the trains the Nazis used, how most people went along into these trains...)


WHICH IS BEST, depending on what?
Can we do some advance planning (with family etc) and preparations, such as caches?
Speaking in general terms of course -- not your family's particular plans.

Here's hoping that some advance pre-planning TOGETHER will prepare us for the eventuality of Martial Law...
__________________
D&C 38:21-33 "I will be your king and watch over you...Hear my voice and follow me, and you shall be a free people, and ye shall have no law but my laws when I come, for I am your lawgiver, and what can stay my hand? ...The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will"
 
Dr. Jones:
 
Some background to help us in our thinking about this... A woman pulled out of her apartment where she was safe and doing well, by military-types -- soon after Katrina. Here's what she says about it:
Quote:
"I really don't know what the news footage of Hurricane Katrina looked like from the outside, but I can only guess that it was completely sensational and focused mostly on the violence and mayhem in the Superdome and downtown New Orleans. Here is a different perspective on urban collapse, an insider's view... hopefully more helpful for those of you planning to stay in the cities.

Your best chance of survival is through a social network.

A lot of hospitality and help was extended to me through neighbors, friends, and friends of friends. Stockpiling supplies is helpful but nobody can possibly prepare for every contingency, and that's where pooling group resources comes in handy.

Be prepared to barter supplies to get help.

If someone gives you a ride in a boat, or shares food or shelter, you leave them with a few rolls of toilet paper or a gallon of drinking water. Common courtesy and gratitude will get you much further along than hoarding.


The biggest problems you will face, possibly other than violence, will be lack of water, and lack of sanitation. There will be no running water or sewage disposal, so definitely make plans to provide your own. About the best situation you can be in is to live in an apartment complex with a swimming pool. True you can't drink pool water but you can certainly use it to wash dishes, clothes, and people, and that will take a lot of pressure off of your stored drinking water supplies. Many cities are located next to bodies of water, and if you are fortunate enough to be within walking distance to one, consider that your emergency water source. (just remember that a private pool will be much much cleaner than a public access source). If you can do nothing else, at least fill up your bathtub before the last of the water pressure dies out of the system. I can't stress this enough, without water you can't stay put. Everyone remembers to stock canned goods but almost no one thinks about water.

Sewage is another thing entirely. The toilets will not flush, the sewage lines may back up, and if you are staying someplace for an extended period you need to make sanitation a top priority. The best solution I can think of for this is a composting toilet, which can be made out of a five gallon bucket, a toilet seat, and a pile of sawdust. barring that you might try digging a pit toilet in the backyard, but this is going to stink to high heaven and make life very unpleasant. No matter what you do or how clean you keep yourself, be prepared for clouds of black flies all over the place from all the rotting food, uncollected garbage, (dead bodies?) that everyone else is leaving around. Stock toilet paper. Much more than you think you will need, because it's a great item for bartering. [flannel toilet 'paper'; black cloth for hiding]


Anyone and everyone who had a boat after the flooding began in earnest could call the shots, barter transportation for supplies, play the hero and rescue old ladies, etc. Obviously New Orleans is a special case being below sea level, but whatever your situation think about what would be the most in demand item to have in your city. this would be an excellent way to leverage yourself if you are interested in being the leader of your group, or conversely to avoid being dependent on others. My one caveat is: make sure your in demand item is not gas powered, because gasoline will run out almost faster than clean water.

Be prepared for random acts of kindness

Complete strangers will help you. Not everyone in the city is out to get you. Of course be sensible and be wary of people you don't know, but also be open to the genuinely nice folks around you who are willing to back you up. Never turn away help, because there is power in numbers.


I have some particularly bad memories of the soldiers who were "organizing" the evacuation area where I stayed overnight, which was basically just a crowd of 6000 angry people sleeping under a highway bridge in a pile of garbage and piss (I wish I was exaggerating). I would be very cautious about any relief efforts provided by military. do your best to evade the crowd control and roundups that will happen. I would be somewhat more inclined to trust help from police as they are also residents of the city and will show you more humanity than government forces will, but ultimately they will be participating in the military roundups and should be avoided.

If you plan on escaping the city after catastrophe has struck, be certain to stay off the main roads. Military and cops will close all roads leading out of the city in order to "contain" the problem, they will detain you or shoot you if you insist on walking out. This is why I don't think the last minute evacuation is a reasonable plan. It's going to be harder than you think to get out once there is a problem.

At night it is going to be dark. Very, very dark.

This seems like common sense but it is a difficult concept to get across to a city person. Total darkness in an urban area is often something only experienced in a windowless closet. Otherwise you are surrounded by 24 hour ambient light, streetlights, safety floodlights, etc. If the power to the entire city goes out, your apartment is going to be much much darker than you ever imagined it could be. Walking outside at night is going to be scary as hell, you will not be able to see your hand in front of your face. I highly recommend a high powered flashlight or lantern to get you out to the backyard latrine or wherever you have to go once the sun goes down. Trust me on this one.


---> A blow by blow would be a fairly long and rambling post, since I was in the city for 3 days before I got out. But my experiences of the whole affair were probably very different from the average person's. For instance, my location had a lot to do with what did and did not happen to me. My apartment was nowhere near downtown. I was in a quiet outlying residential area (Midcity near City Park to anyone who is familiar with N.O.). I never saw any violence or looting. On top of this I was located on the second floor of a small gated complex (12 apartments) with a pool, and believe it or not we were on one of the few high spots in the city so the water never even came onto the property. Basically I was in a walled compound on an island with water all around me. I had plenty of food and drinking water stored up, the pool for bathing and washing dishes, and I found the whole aftermath of the storm kind of fun and not unpleasant in the least. think urban camping.

I slept on my balcony every night and listened to the helicopters doing rescue operations to the east of me. Occasionally I listened to the radio, barbequed lunch by the pool, watched people boating down the street, or went out wading around the immediate area to survey the damage. One of the coolest visuals I can remember was the pitch black city, a million stars overhead, and no illumination but helicopter search lights off in the distance. I think I probably could have stayed put, maybe not for a month but certainly a couple weeks, and been okay. But the rising water made me nervous and I didn't want to end up trapped in the attic trying to chop a hole in the roof. (btw that did happen to some folks) After a couple of days I made the decision to be wherever the boat was, and left with a neighbor. And when I decided to evacuate is basically when everything went to hell. (this is a moot point as the cops and military did door to door searches and would have eventually found me one way or another)

Weirdest Memory: canoeing down Canal St. (very busy 6 lane thoroughfare that runs north/south and divides the city in half)

Worst Memory: standing shoulder to shoulder with 6000 other people behind a barricade with a guy in fatigues pointing a gun at us


You have to remember that the military is looking at the big picture. Their first priority is not to help individual citizens, but to prevent large-scale problems from developing. Don't assume that you are going to be on the right side of the equation, or that your needs will come first.

A little background info: New Orleans is 60% black, with very high crime and poverty levels. It is surrounded by a more affluent, mostly white suburban population. Neighborhoods all over the metro area are almost completely segregated, and there is little contact between black and white communities, but plenty of mutual hostility and mistrust.

Now into that environment, put a bunch of desperate, mostly minority refugees trying to flee the city. Flee where? Into the rich white suburbs? this would be a public relations nightmare for the police. The military crackdown was an attempt to keep the communities separated and contain the violence and chaos to the city proper. essentially letting minorities drown to protect rich white suburbanites. (You may recall the incident where police shot and killed unarmed people attempting to cross a bridge out of the city and into a nearby suburb.).

Extreme situations will either bring out the best or the worst in people. You will either feel compassion for your fellow man, or you will point a gun into his face. I saw examples of both attitudes, but the older the hostility and the more repressed it is, the more likely it is to boil over during a crisis.

... Nic-fitting smokers are a desperate bunch, and even more so when they are under stress.

Also, for anyone who believes the government will take care of you during a large-scale disaster, don't fool yourself. There is no way the fed can do anything better than you can do it yourself. You have the advantage of being able to plan ahead, whereas the government is not doing anything about what's coming and any relief efforts they provide will be hastily conceived and inadequate.

For example,
I left my very comfortable, safe, and private walled island compound, where I had plenty of food and fresh water and dry land to walk around on, so that I could sit in a crowd of stinking, angry people under a highway overpass with a soldier's gun trained on me, spend the night curled up uncomfortably on my duffel bag in a gutter filled with garbage, just to urinate publicly in a field littered other people's excrement. Just try to do this with some degree of modesty and wondering if you're going to get jumped any second by some weirdo. Well sorry, but in trying to keep myself covered up I just ended up pissing all over my clothes, and had the further indignity of spending the rest of the day covered in my own filth. Honestly I have never in my life felt so subhuman. If this is the humanitarian "relief" that will be provided then I want no part of it. I was better off on my own.

That experience proves to me that the point is not to help people, but keep them contained in a controlled area. If the military was truly motivated by charity and compassion then why let people sh*t in an open field like animals?

You can plan for every possible situation except one, government interference. The only thing you can do [? THINK OF ALTERNATIVES] is be someplace that the military will hopefully ignore because they will have bigger problems to worry about. Many people who are for staying in the cities post-crash have argued that cities will be better because the rural areas will be the first places to be cut off from resources and aid. And that's precisely *the best* reason to be in a rural area. You don't want the "aid"

One thing I am careful of in my search for rural land is to not be anywhere near military bases... Others have brought up a very good point, the government has set a historical precedent for enforcing eminent domain on the unwilling, and there's no guarantee that property rights will be respected post-crash. (Civil rights in general are an endangered species these days, and we haven't even begun to experience true crisis yet)."
WHAT DID THE CHURCH DO LOCALLY BEFORE/DURING/AFTER KATRINA? WERE LDS COUNSELED TO LEAVE OR STAY PUT, OR NO COUNSEL GIVEN? DOES ANYONE KNOW?
 
From GI Joe:
 
Key points in the narrative:
1. The biggest problems you will face, possibly other than violence, will be lack of water, and lack of sanitation. True in the short term..

2. I would be very cautious about any relief efforts provided by military. do your best to evade the crowd control and roundups that will happen. YES! Be self sufficient!

3. Military and cops will close all roads leading out of the city in order to "contain" the problem, they will detain you or shoot you if you insist on walking out. YES! Tired, frustrated, hot, thirsty, uncaring govt robots are NOT your friend.

4. police shot and killed unarmed people attempting to cross a bridge out of the city.Believe it, this is at least the 3rd time she said it!!

5. for anyone who believes the government will take care of you during a large-scale disaster, don't fool yourself. I left my very comfortable, safe, and private walled island compound, where I had plenty of food and fresh water and dry land to walk around on, so that I could sit in a crowd of stinking, angry people under a highway overpass with a soldier's gun trained on me, spend the night curled up uncomfortably on my duffel bag in a gutter filled with garbage, just to urinate publicly in a field littered other people's excrement. "If this is the humanitarian "relief" that will be provided then I want no part of it. I was better off on my own." This statement speaks for itself.

6. The experience proves to me that the point is not to help people, but keep them contained in a controlled area. If the military was truly motivated by charity and compassion then why let people sh*t in an open field like animals? You can plan for every possible situation except one, government interference. How many times and ways can she say this...? Is this the "TAKE HOME" message of her post?

7. BEST ADVICE: Many people who are for staying in the cities post-crash have argued that cities will be better because the rural areas will be the first places to be cut off from resources and aid. And that's precisely *the best* reason to be in a rural area. You don't want the "aid"

8. BEST QUESTION: WERE LDS COUNSELED TO LEAVE OR STAY PUT, OR NO COUNSEL GIVEN?

Excellent information. Thank you NewLeaf.
GI JOE
IN GOD WE TRUST
 
From Dr. Steven Jones (New Leaf)
CBoyack, I agree:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cboyack View Post
I think communications are critical in acquiring the necessary information to be well informed and thus make better decisions. If you hear on the radio that they're going door to door taking guns, then you can respond appopriately. If you hear than they're rounding people up, then you can decide to flee. It's important that we know what's going on (insofar as is possible) so that we can make wise decisions.

Of course, the best communication device is the Spirit. This is how Lehi got his information to flee, and we should be tuned in more to this frequency than those on our AM/FM radios.
 
But FLEE TO WHERE? Preferably somewhere where you or a small group of friends have cached some food... This is a suggestion, seems a lot of people are talking about this sort of thing in central Utah -- I heard this at a couple of meetings in Provo, for example. But not many are actually DOING this sort of thing, yet... Or maybe they're not telling anyone!

Cinnaminnies, you don't personally need to have land, if someone in your group has land. You might want to consider talking to "like-minded" people about forming a Preparedness or GOOD (Get of out Dodge) club... Just a thought, but a very serious one.
__________________

From Christopher:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewLeaf View Post

1. Run --
2. Hide --
3. Fight --
I think the best answer is all of the above.

RUN away from Metropolitan Areas.
&
HIDE somewhere in a thinly populated country settings.
&
FIGHT when you are attacked.
 
 
 

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