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Libertarian Philosophy... the biggest threat to R's and D's (UPDATE)

Written by Subject: Politics: Libertarian Campaigns

Thank You Professor Hornberger. -  It appears that Ernest Hancock at Freedom Phoenix has deemed our exchange important enough to share with the readers of Freedom Phoenix in that he published our exchange, up to this point.   I appreciate that. 

                    https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/262189-2019-06-01-libertarian-philosophy-the-biggest-threat-to-rs-and-ds.htm?From=News

 

           No apology was needed for your delay in responding.  I understand.  I was just fearful that my email was lost in cyberspace. 

 

        I understand what you have stated and I respectfully disagree, but only in our terminology and definitions.   The "conservative" you describe is a statist/conservative, a socialist/conservative and NOT a true conservative.   A true conservative would not support the statist/socialist agenda you detail.  The conservative I espouse is one who has his feet planted on solid Constitutional ground and supports with a passion the mantra of "free enterprise, private property, and limited government," as opposed to the modern day liberal who has his feet firmly planted in mid-air under the guise of progressivism.   

 

       I understand that true libertarian stands for my right to pursue happiness in any way I choose as long as I don't harm anyone else or steal from them with forced taxation, which I endorse.   I am a libertarian in that I strongly believe that my rights end where the next man's rights begin.  I believe that discrimination is the essence of liberty.  However I do not hold with open immigration just "as long as the immigrants are peaceful."  Until the government handouts are eliminated, I care not how peaceful an immigrant is, but only if he follows the rules to request entry and not by coming to America to suck the hind tit of the giant sow of government.

 

      On abortion, the libertarian position is "Abortion is a woman's choice and does not concern the state."   I take strong exception to that. I stand by the fundamental true conservative premise that abortion is murder and the state is entrusted to protect and defend the rights of the unborn against murderers, just as the state has been entrusted to protect and defend the rights of adults.  Those are "malem in se" crimes to which the people have granted to government to prosecute.  I am libertarian in that I believe a rational adult has the right to suicide, to contract for prostitution and to take drugs for whatever his reason, but conservative in defending the right to life and holding every man to answer to the responsibility of his actions, his tongue and his pen.   

 

     I personally oppose conservative/statists in every area and stand with you in believing that conservative/socialists and conservative/statists to be a morally bankrupt philosophy.  Justifying these no win wars of aggression is NOT true conservatism and neither is compromising on the right to bear arms and self-defense.  I flat out do not consider true conservatism as a morally bankrupt philosophy.  I am not inclined to throw the baby out with the bath water without a clear distinction of terms used to describe each.

 

    Professor Hornberger, I appreciate the opportunity to exchange thoughts with you.   You inspire me to think.  I wish you the very best and I know down deep that you have the best interests of liberty at heart.   Regardless, I still consider myself a conservative/libertarian.   Please feel free to critique my thoughts and my positions.  I will share your comments.   I thank you for this opportunity and the courtesy of your response.

 

    Respectfully,   <:} <:} <:} bob minarik - rochester indiana  -  liberty.falcon@outlook.com

On Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 8:23 AM Bob M, Liberty Falcon <liberty.falcon@outlook.com> wrote:

  Professor Hornberger  -  I sent this following email to you on Wednesday.   I have received no response and am wondering if it didn't get lost in cyberspace somewhere.   Would you please acknowledge that you received these emails.   I thank you!!

bob minarik - rochester indiana -  50 years in the patriot movement.

From: liberty.falcon@
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 12:15 PM
To: 'Jacob Hornberger'
Subject: Why is conservatism morally bankrupt?

 

Professor Hornberger (c/o https://www.fff.org/ )   -   Below is a comment I submitted to Freedom Phoenix.   Would you be kind enough to address my inquiry?   I am sharing this email with others and will share any response you proffer.  Thank You! -  bob minarik - rochester indiana

To those receiving a copy of this email, I inform you that the following quote came from this article.   Help me out here.  Can anyone else add input to this comment I sent to Freedom Phoenix and to Professor Hornberger??    What am I missing?  What don't I understand?   <:} bob

https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Forum/Add?EdNo=001&Type=Article&Info=261917

Professor Hornberger - You wrote and I quote:   "As for me, when I read George Will's piece, I considered it to be an enormous insult. As far as I was concerned, any self-respecting Libertarian (or libertarian) would have responded to Will by saying, "George, let's get something straight. I am a libertarian, not a conservative. Contrary to your suggestion, I am not interested in restoring conservatism. I'm interested in burying conservatism because it is a morally bankrupt philosophy, as morally bankrupt as progressivism is."

 

I don't understand.  I consider myself a libertarian/conservative.   I am a libertarian in every way except I am not in favor of open drugs and abortion in any form and in those areas I hold that I am a strong conservative.  I do not believe in open borders.  I will defend the rights of homosexuals to exist, but will oppose at every opportunity the goals of the LGBTQ movement to force ram their junk down mine or my neighbor's throat.  Based on that,  I don't consider conservatism as a morally bankrupt philosophy.  Correct me if I err, but I would like to know why you do. <:} bob minarik

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Jacob Hornberger <jhornberger@fff.org>
Date: Sat, Jun 1, 2019 at 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Why is conservatism morally bankrupt?
To: Bob M, Liberty Falcon

Hi Bob,

Sorry, owing to commitments and deadlines, my mountain of unanswered email has grown extremely high. Please accept my apology for my delay in responding to your email. 

The favorite mantra of conservatives is "free enterprise, private property, and limited government."  Notwithstanding this mantra, conservatives are firmly committed to conserving and preserving every socialist,interventionist, regulatory, and imperialist program, department, and agency that comes down the pike, with the possible exception of food stamps, including: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, subsidies, trade restrictions and trade wars, immigration controls, public schooling, drug laws, minimum wage laws, price controls, departments of education, homeland security, labor, agriculture, hud, sec, federal reserve, income taxation and the irs, the national security state, the pentagon, the military industrial complex, the cia, the nsa, the fbi, wars of aggression, foreign military bases, undeclared wars, coups, alliances with dictatorial regimes and criminal organizations, assassination, war on terrorism, Tsa, dea, torture, regime change operations, sanctions, embargoes, tariffs, surveillance, out of control spending and debt,  and ... well, I think you probably get my drift. The fact is that conservatives are as responsible for the destruction of "free enterprise, private property, and limited government" as progressives. 

The only way to get out of the statist morass and achieve liberty is through libertarianism and through us libertarians, who stand firmly for freedom and, therefore, against all statist programs, departments, and agencies, including every one of the things listed above. 

Best regards and thanks again. 

Jacob 

--

Jacob Hornberger

President
The Future of Freedom Foundation
11350 Random Hills Road
Suite 800
Fairfax VA 22030

www.fff.org
jhornberger@fff.org

Tel: (703) 934-6101

Fax: (703) 352-8678

Thank You Professor Hornberger. -  It appears that Ernest Hancock at Freedom Phoenix has deemed our exchange important enough to share with the readers of Freedom Phoenix in that he published our exchange, up to this point.   I appreciate that. 

                    https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/262189-2019-06-01-libertarian-philosophy-the-biggest-threat-to-rs-and-ds.htm?From=News

 

           No apology was needed for your delay in responding.  I understand.  I was just fearful that my email was lost in cyberspace. 

 

        I understand what you have stated and I respectfully disagree, but only in our terminology and definitions.   The "conservative" you describe is a statist/conservative, a socialist/conservative and NOT a true conservative.   A true conservative would not support the statist/socialist agenda you detail.  The conservative I espouse is one who has his feet planted on solid Constitutional ground and supports with a passion the mantra of "free enterprise, private property, and limited government," as opposed to the modern day liberal who has his feet firmly planted in mid-air under the guise of progressivism.   

 

       I understand that true libertarian stands for my right to pursue happiness in any way I choose as long as I don't harm anyone else or steal from them with forced taxation, which I endorse.   I am a libertarian in that I strongly believe that my rights end where the next man's rights begin.  I believe that discrimination is the essence of liberty.  However I do not hold with open immigration just "as long as the immigrants are peaceful."  Until the government handouts are eliminated, I care not how peaceful an immigrant is, but only if he follows the rules to request entry and not by coming to America to suck the hind tit of the giant sow of government.

 

      On abortion, the libertarian position is "Abortion is a woman's choice and does not concern the state."   I take strong exception to that. I stand by the fundamental true conservative premise that abortion is murder and the state is entrusted to protect and defend the rights of the unborn against murderers, just as the state has been entrusted to protect and defend the rights of adults.  Those are "malem in se" crimes to which the people have granted to government to prosecute.  I am libertarian in that I believe a rational adult has the right to suicide, to contract for prostitution and to take drugs for whatever his reason, but conservative in defending the right to life and holding every man to answer to the responsibility of his actions, his tongue and his pen.   

 

     I personally oppose conservative/statists in every area and stand with you in believing that conservative/socialists and conservative/statists to be a morally bankrupt philosophy.  Justifying these no win wars of aggression is NOT true conservatism and neither is compromising on the right to bear arms and self-defense.  I flat out do not consider true conservatism as a morally bankrupt philosophy.  I am not inclined to throw the baby out with the bath water without a clear distinction of terms used to describe each.

 

    Professor Hornberger, I appreciate the opportunity to exchange thoughts with you.   You inspire me to think.  I wish you the very best and I know down deep that you have the best interests of liberty at heart.   Regardless, I still consider myself a conservative/libertarian.   Please feel free to critique my thoughts and my positions.  I will share your comments.   I thank you for this opportunity and the courtesy of your response.

 

    Respectfully,   <:} <:} <:} bob minarik - rochester indiana  -

1 Comments in Response to

Comment by Ed Martin
Entered on:

Could have just asked him who he is going to force to pay for forbidding what he is not in favor of. Prohibitionists are immoral. Deal with it. Make it a mantra. Ernie, fix your comment section. Seems there is 50% chance that the comment will be accepted. It's a pain.


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