FREEDOM FORUM: Discussion

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Daniel Webster once stated, “Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and the republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American C

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Comment by G Cone
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I don't know that I can support this. There is a lot I like, but this there just seems to be too much religious demagoguery involved. I don't believe in superstition. I don't believe I have rights given to me by god, or Allah, or the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus, I just want freedom because I yearn for it. More than 1 in 10 Americans are not theists. If you want to base your whole fight for freedom around the idea that it is given to you by god, and exclude us evil non-believers, go ahead. This We The People group sounds like the goddamn so-called Constitution Party, for chrissake. Here's a hint: Wrapping your political ideas with your religious beliefs is a very exclusive, not inclusive, strategy. Might as well say that you demand freedom from the government in the name of all left handed gay biker transexual stoners. Might as well say that 'we' believe our rights come from the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and then wonder why some folks won't get behind your movement.  


Comment by wes hunter
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Like it or not, this country was founded by god-fearing men on christian principles. These men respected all religions, but made no effort to hide their own. It is certainly your right to hold different beliefs, without prejudice. But don't try and reinvent America to align with yours. 


Comment by G Cone
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Well personally if I'm afraid of something I usually don't worship it, but to each his own. I support people's right to believe in God, the tooth fairy, whatever they choose, but people who need an imaginary friend are not the only ones that want to be free. Frankly if we are able to stop socialism I'm sure the theocrats from the Moral Majority will make a play to fill the power vacuum, and that scares the bejesus out of me. I think any outfit that claims it gets authority due to Divine Providence should openly and conspicuously identify itself as a primarily religious organization, because thats what it is. Anything less is disingenuous. 


Comment by Tom Westbrook
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G Cone - "I just want freedom because I yearn for it"

The question is: by what authority do you claim that you have rights? If I have a bigger gun than you, maybe I'll claim that I have the authority given to me by my gun to take away your rights? Unless you can claim that you have rights given to you by a higher authority than man, then man can take away those rights. It's the law of the jungle.

 If you don't like the word 'god' then come up with something else. The point is that your rights didn't come from man, and hence they must have come from some higher authority.


Comment by G Cone
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Tom, if you can't prove the existence of this 'higher authority', how can you claim that 'rights come from it'? It's one of those things that just doesn't make any sense but is accepted because its repeated over and over. If there is a god, for all I know he told Obama that mankind has natural rights to free health care, a job, four hots and a cot.  What makes Bob Schultz or Thomas Jefferson think there is a god and that they know what it wants? Saying that Americans have rights granted to them by god is simply a convenient appeal to authority that carries zero weight unless you can prove the existence of this god and how it has this magical power of granting rights. What does that mean, anyway, that he grants us rights? All this rights granting by god I hear about certainly didn't do the native Americans much good, or the asians that were rounded up in WWII. Even if there were a god and it granted you rights, is that going to stop someone with a bigger gun? What if the guy with the biggest gun doesn't believe your bible story?


Comment by H. Skip Robinson
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As a reasonable individual, I surely quarrel with the concept of how humans get their rights. I believe that Natural Law best describes the most rational approach to understanding individual rights.  If you believe in a God(s), she, he or it is of course being part of the natural world, perhaps it originator than you are surely covered by natural law. If you do not believe in God or not quite sure of the existence, you're also covered by natural law, hence the belief that it is merely a code of conduct that works best. I will respect your rights if you respect mine. I will not harm your property if you do not harm mine, but if you do aggress against me, than I should surely have the right without recourse to protect myself, my family and my property. 

Nature Law is simply Common Sense that religions have surely picked up on.  John Adams noted “the great legislator in the sky”.  However we got the ability of cognitive thought, we surely display the abilities of reason. It is not as important to me, as to how we got to this time and progression, it is more important as to it greater implementation.    

 

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