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Ernest Hancock versus Frosty Wooldridge: Great Radio Debate

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Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock Afternoon September 8th 2010
Ernest Hancock
   1st Hour - Jet Lacey - The Revolution Continues with Jet Lacey / 2nd and 3rd Hour - Frosty Wooldridge - joins Ernest to talk about Immigration & Population Control 
First of all, I like Ernie Hancock, his wife Donna and I have met their children.  Great All-American family.  Ernie represents the best of Arizona, his community and the human race. He’s an exceptional speaker and writer.  I hope to enjoy a lifelong friendship and connection to Ernie Hancock. 

Therefore, let me begin! No species can continue unending growth on a finite planet. Period! Exclamation point!  Final fact! Reality!

Remember this sentence as it will become the most important quote of the 21st century: “Every cause is a lost cause without limiting human population.”  Paul Ehrlich
Since he made that statement in 1968: "A series of things have come up since then that have made the problem incredibly grimmer…. The ozone hole… acid rain…. Three hundred million people have starved to death since THE POPULATION BOMB was written. The famines weren’t as large as agriculturists thought they would be… due to the spread of… Green Revolution technology into the poor countries…. What makes us nervous right now is that we’re faced with again having to do something desperate to increase our food production greatly.... In 1965 we knew exactly how to do it, the question was could we deploy it fast enough—Today we have nothing left to deploy—that’s very scary.... As a species we’re not able to live on our income; we’re living on our capital, our deep rich agricultural soils are being destroyed, water is being over-pumped, and our biodiversity, our life support system—we’re already far beyond what we can support."

Secondly, remember this sentence as it will become the second most important quote of the 21st century: ““We must alert and organize the world's people to pressure world leaders to take specific steps to solve the two root causes of our environmental crises - exploding population growth and wasteful consumption of irreplaceable resources. Over-consumption and overpopulation underlie every environmental problem we face today.”   Jacques-Yves Cousteau

On September 8, 2010, publisher and radio talk show host Ernest Hancock battled for two hours with Frosty Wooldridge, author of America on the Brink: The Next Added 100 Million Americans.

Hancock thinks he won on emotions, but in fact, he failed via a lack of understanding of science.

Hancock stands as a lifelong Libertarian while Wooldridge stands as a Jeffersonian Constitutionalist.  Since Jefferson, Madison, Adams, Mason and several others created the U.S. Constitution, it allows varying philosophies including Libertarian. Because of the Constitution—Libertarians exist.

In those two hours, Hancock tried his best to thwart my work as a leading advocate for U.S. population stabilization.  However, as with most Americans, Hancock does not understand the ‘whole’ story or the ‘big’ picture.  And from several of the calls that worried about Agenda 21, neither do many of Hancock’s listeners.

Ernie and his listeners said, “We’ve got plenty of space! We’ll find new energy sources!”

Knock, knock, where’s your brain? It’s not about ‘space’, it’s about ‘carrying capacity’ and we already exceed it at current population levels that cannot be sustained.

Therefore, I am going to make it very clear to readers and listeners with this information:

I am not and never have advocated for the UN’s Agenda 21. However, because my background in environmental sciences and six continents of world travel, I have seen Mother Nature’s ‘Agenda 21’ up close and ugly.  Because of human overpopulation worldwide, 18 million human beings die of starvation annually.  Another 1.0 billion humans live in dramatic and growing abject poverty. Mother Nature is the ultimate enforcer of ‘Agenda 21’ as well as grand marshal of human misery around the planet.

If humans continue their fecundity stupidity, Mother Nature will continue wiping them out at every faster rates of speed through disease, starvation, pestilence, war for resources and other means.

Yet Hancock argued that we could support unlimited population growth, which means the U.S. could handle another billion just like India or China. His listeners sounded off, albeit totally out of touch with reality as few of them ever stepped foot into India or China, that the USA enjoys enough space to continue unlimited population growth.

I responded, “Balderdash times a million!”


“It’s time again to correct the educationally credentialed but innumerate experts (innumeracy is the mathematical equivalent of illiteracy) that growth is inevitable,” said Dr. Albert Bartlett.  [or that endless growth can be sustained; it cannot!]

Hancock, like his listeners, runs on emotion and not science.  We face water shortages today that we cannot solve!  We face energy crises today that we cannot and are not solving.  We face resource shortages.  We face global climate destabilization because of our fossil fuel usage.  Humanity creates extinctions rates of other species at over 100 species per day—gone forever!  We are losing bees, bats, birds, bugs, fish and other creatures that create the delicate web of life—that feed us!

All because of human population encroachment!

It’s easy to gloss over something you don’t understand or live by a paradigm that worked in the past but cannot withstand current realities.  You may educate yourself at:

www.albartlett.org “Sustainability, Energy and Population”

www.postcarbon.org Richard Heinberg , Peak Everything: Facing a century of declines

Dr. William Catton, Overshoot

Dr. John Tanton, www.thesocialcontract.com

Dr. Joseph Tainter, How Complex Societies Fail

Aldolpho Doring, Amanda Zackem, www.blindspotdoc.org

David Paxson , www.worldpopulationbalance.org

William Ryerson, www.populationmedia.org

Roy Beck, www.numbersusa.com  “Immigration by the Numbers” 14 minute video

After you read or watch the information by those top experts, you will understand that our country already stands nostril-deep in trouble on multiple levels.  Nothing about Ernie’s shouting me down or attempting to dodge science and facts will save him, his family or you.

Therefore, not only must we stop mass immigration into this country, we must move toward a stable and sustainable population. If not, we face the same consequences now playing out in many overpopulated countries around the world.

It’s your choice and I hope you choose reason over emotion.

 “The ship is already starting to spin out of control.  We may soon lose all chance of grabbing the wheel. Humanity faces a genuinely new situation.  It is not an environmental crisis in the accepted sense. It is a crisis for the entire life-support system for our civilization and our species.”  Fred Pearce, The Last Generation: How Nature Will take Her Revenge for Climate Change


If any of us, no matter what our race, creed or color might be, refuse to engage our U.S. Congress as we have not for 30 years as to the population/immigration equation—our children will find themselves living in a terribly degraded America where the American Dream will be described by the history books as a ‘fleeting fantasy’ from the era of 1950 to 2010.  These are several of the top organizations where you can take collective action to change the course of American history as well as in Canada, the United Kingdom and Australia. Take collective action at www.numbersusa.com . You can join for free. Over 1 million members, bi partisan, send in pre written letters via fax. Quick, easy, effective. Reach your reps!


; www.fairus.org ; www.capsweb.org ; www.thesocialcontract.com ; www.populationmedia.org ; www.worldpopulationbalance.org ; www.populationconnection.org ; www.quinacrine.com ; www.familyplanning.org/ , www.skil.org ; www.growthbusters.com ; www.populationpress.org ; www.thinkpopulation.org ; www.carryingcapacity.orgwww.balance.org ; www.controlgrowth.org ;  in Canada www.immigrationwatchcanada.org ; in Australia www.population.org.au and PublicPopForum@yahoogroups.com ; in Great Britain www.optimumpopulation.org ; and dozens of other sites accessed at www.frostywooldridge.com.


Must see DVD:  “Blind Spot”   http://www.snagfilms.com/films/title/blind_spot/  , This movie illustrates America’s future without oil, water and other resources to keep this civilization functioning. It’s a brilliant educational movie!  www.blindspotdoc.com


Must see: Rapid Population Decline, seven minute video by Dr. Jack Alpert-



Must see and funny:  www.growthbusters.org ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXSTrW_dARc
Dave Gardner’s Polar Bear in Bedroom: http://growthbusters.org/2010/03/save-the-polar-bear-in-your-bedroom ; Dave Gardner, President, Citizen-Powered Media ; Producing the Documentary, GROWTH BUSTERS; presents Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity, Join the cause at www .growthbusters.org ;760 Wycliffe Drive, Colorado Springs, CO  80906  USA; +1 719-576-5565


Check out this link with Wooldridge on bicycle and Lester Brown and panel discussion:


Tomorrow's America project on www.youtube.com/contemporarylearning.

Producer:  GEORGE A. COLBURN www.tomorrowsamerica.com

DC: 202-258-4887

Email: gac@starbrightmc.com

Link to www.tomorrowsamerica.com  for more discussions on America’s predicament.





Dear fellow Americans, Canadians, Australians, United Kingdom, New Zealand, and planetary citizens:

Re: The USA about to add 100 million people within 25 years—world to add 3 billion people in 40 years, and what actions citizens must take in order to change course toward viable and sustainable societies--interview with Frosty Wooldridge

If you have time, you may enjoy a one hour interview in California as I address overpopulation/immigration, not only in that state, but nationwide and worldwide.  I attempted to cover all aspects of what our civilization faces if we continue on our overpopulation path toward adding 100 million people within 25 years here in the USA.  While we may become emotional around the immigration issue--in the end--it’s about too many people, too little water, too little resources, vanishing carrying capacity, species extinction, acidified oceans and dwindling energy reserves that will render this civilization and all ‘oil-dependent’ civilizations unsustainable. Away from the ‘emotional’ responses, we find ourselves in a great deal of trouble on multiple levels. I attempt to bring that reality to the forefront.  Additionally, below, you may read from other top world minds and writers as to the long term consequences of continued human overpopulation.

Interview with Frosty Wooldridge--Posted on the archive of the Stark Truth:  http://reasonradionetwork.com/?p=8893

Thank you for appearing for an excellent & informative show!
Regards, Mike Conner
Voice of Reason Broadcast Network


Frosty Wooldridge has bicycled across six continents – from the Arctic to the South Pole – as well as six times across the USA, coast to coast and border to border.  In 2005, he bicycled from the Arctic Circle, Norway to Athens, Greece.  He presents “The Coming Population Crisis in America: and what you can do about it” to civic clubs, church groups, high schools and colleges.  He works to bring about sensible world population balance at www.frostywooldridge.com  He is the author of:  America on the Brink: The Next Added 100 Million Americans.  Copies available:  1 888 280 7715


6 Comments in Response to

Comment by Anonymous
Entered on:

Frosty, I am responding to your angry comment below -- Michele, Bakadud, and others,

I think you are just a plain angry crusader of population control. You are so angry because nobody listens to you. I am with you with regards to the problem you see of population explosion, especially when the government seems indifferent to the danger it presents to the nation that is bursting with censal headcounts in its seams. However, your arguments are full of holes. Let's look at what you are saying: We cannot, and I repeat, we cannot add 100 million people to this country without degrading quality of life, standard of living and destruction of our environment. What about the millions we SUBTRACT when they leave your company and transfer their residence to the Great Blue Beyond, giving the funeral industry a great boast in time of economic recession?

Death and Birth rates, immigration and migration seem strangers to you as if you have never heard of them! They come and go, and in the science of Statistics they create the Law of Compensating Error [the range of plus & minus in head counts] that balances or tends towards a very slow growth if not towards status quo … in econometrics it is called equilibrium, the mathematical base where you start calculating the positive or negative growth.

Having said that, it dawns to me that you are still thinking in terms of Malthusian Theory in your long-winded writings, a theory that had been discarded long, long time ago. With advance technology and new scientific discoveries this theory had become so stale that not even students of social science in schools, colleges and universities would think that the threat of the end of world through overpopulation that you repeatedly harped on in your writings is sane enough to merit attention.

You do not need Ernest to tell you about the fallacy of your obsession. You don't have to even worry about doomsday in 2050. By that time you would be no longer there to admit that you were wrong. And please don’t call those who do not agree with you "too stupid to understandplain too stupid". We hate to use this on you. Our tolerance for your immigration fixation and population explosion hang-ups is really that long … I assure you! To me you are still a bicycle hero.

Comment by Kuerno Dechivo
Entered on:
Control, kidnap, kill and steal from others to avoid degrading your quality of life? My goodness, sounds like a great motto for rapists, looters and thieves as to not degrade THEIR quality of life or standard of living.

I guess I am just done bowing down before the control freaks that gain power with each new boogie man they present. If that means it is left in God's hands or in Frosty's world, Darwin's and Mother Nature's hands then so be it. Mother nature and Darwin have never directly threatened me with lethal force and imprisonment if I do not allow them to control my life and steal my resources.

Heck, if everybody comes here I will go there, problem solved. Even as heavily populated as Mexico is, you can still find empty space just as you can here.

If one feels so strongly about Zero Population why not form a self-subscribed  group of vasectomies, hysterectomies and abortion just like the Zeitgeist group does for like minded people or like the Vegans that VOLUNTARILY do not participate in the killing of animals or eating animal products. The problem is, it always comes down to force and control and most of us are tired of it.

At this point when someone comes slinging their new fangled ideas or new flavors of old ideas I look at one thing, will I be more free or less free under their proposed system?

Frosty mentions that “eventually” we will be freer under the plan but I would like examples where restrictive laws have been repealed or where tax rates and fees that were raised to fight the new boogie-man were actually dissolved after the threat was gone. It just doesn't happen. In my entire life this country has only gone in one direction whether controlled by the right or left no matter who or what the new trendy foe is, and that is more and more infringements on my rights and higher and higher taxes.

If Frosty can get to the point to where he can articulate how there will be less laws and we will be freer under a Zero-Population, Restricted-Travel style government then he may win some of us over. However, right now I think we are speaking two different languages and while he can not understand how we would give up our comfort-zone for freedom, we cannot understand how giving up one's freedom could possibly create comfort.




Comment by Frosty Wooldridge
Entered on:

Michele, Bakadud, and others,

Again, my work will prove self-evident within 20 years as we overpopulate this country into an unsustainable quagmire.  You don't have to buy it because it's out of your control once we add 100 million.  I hate illiteracy, but you three folks show total and complete lack of understanding of our predicament as well as Ernie.  We cannot, and I repeat, we cannot add 100 million people to this country without degrading quality of life, standard of living and destruction of our environment.  If you're too stupid to understand that after reading this column, then you're just plain too stupid. Darwin and Mother Nature will have to teach you what I cannot.  Frosty Wooldridge


Comment by Kuerno Dechivo
Entered on:

Losing a foothold?

I don't buy this either and Frosty may want to take a new trip abroad down to China since they are seriously considering lifting their 1 child limit.  (Which in my opinion  has done nothing but promote homo sexuality as parents much prefer a male for their only offspring.)

What..? no more forced abortion and sterilization?  How could it be?  What is this world coming to? Babies must die!

Honestly when I hear Frosty speak and backpedal about the use of force it usually comes back to immigration. If it is ONLY overpopulation through immigration that he is worried about then why not stick to immigration instead of scaring the Hell out of everyone who sees through the do-gooder facade of population control and eugenics.

Honestly I would rather have the whole of Latin-America over run this country then for the false-god of the government coming around to tell me how many children we can have, using the same threat of imprisonment and death that they currently use to enforce the yoke of taxes hanging over our necks.


Thanks but no thanks...Move on Frosty... I don't want any.

Comment by Anonymous
Entered on:

    I would have loved to listen to this radio debate if not in conflict with my TV sci-fi programs.

    Here is Ernest Hancock on one hand who according to Frosty is a NARROW-MINDED libertarian revolutionary that "does not understand the big picture", and on the other here is Frosty Wooldridge, a BROAD-MINDED Jeffersonian whose mind is so broad that in a distance you could no longer see the dot of what he is saying. It is hard to find it in a mountain of words, just as it is hard to see the trees in the forest when you are spaced out by too much lapsus linguae in-between coming from a non-stop ligulae of a narrator who bicycled the world to tell Ernest of what he thinks he saw along the way. What’s interesting is what Ernest thinks of Frosty as an illusionist.

     The titles of my interrupting sci-fi programs that prevented me from listening to this radio debate are Stephen Kings Stand sub-titled "Beware: Fools Are Coming" followed by Alfred Hitchcock’s "Fools Rush In". Honestly, it’s just purely coincidental, no satire intended.



Comment by Michele Power
Entered on:

 I’m not buying what you’re selling, Frosty.  I listened to the show the other day and got a sick feeling in my stomach.  What exactly do you propose?  Should we sterilize people at birth?  Set a limit on babies?  Who is going to enforce that?  Our water is poisoned, our food is toxic, and so is the air we breathe.  I’ve heard statistics that say 1 out of 5 people in America get cancer.  What more do you want?  You remind me of the bully on the playground who wanted all the school’s basketballs for just you and your friends.  People are resilient and resourceful and I believe our earth was made to hold us all.  They’ve already found that oil is a renewable resource.  Why don’t you propose that the big companies stop their destruction of the earth’s resources rather than coming up with a plan to keep people from having more babies?  Tell Monsanto that they don’t own the patent on life and, therefore, people can grow food naturally without pesticides or genetic modification – which may be the solution to your lack of bee pollination problem.  I believe that if we lived in more harmony with the earth, there would be more earth to live in harmony with.   Maybe you and your friends should just go colonize another planet.

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