"Larken, just break the law yourself because according to your distorted mind OBEYING THE LAW IS IMMORAL. Then you will prove to yourself HOW INSANE YOU ARE by preaching this crap… end of discussion." You are so wrong that it hurts me to think about it. He specifically said that morality is NOT derived from the law, necessarily. This is fact. Are you saying that the Nuremberg Laws were moral because they were drawn up by the German government? Because all Larken is saying is that this is not true and can pertain to other countries as well. For you to believe that the United States of America has absolutely 0 immoral/bad laws is simply insane and just WRONG. If this were true the Supreme Court would NEVER need to repeal laws. Since this is not the case, I believe that you must concede, and as a matter of fact apologize for the sake of civility. A am not a "fagged-out anti-Statist," I just have the common sense to use the brain that God gave me.

H. Skip Robinson: No wonder they call you "Skip" … you always skip the issue. My issue – the issue I brought up that you SKIPPED, HOPPED and TRIPPED over and fell flat on your nose -- is that to meet force [i.e. the fully armed SWAT Team in the Guerena case] that is greater than yours, ISN’T SMART when you end up six feet below the ground like the dead ex-Marine. The smartest thing to do is to stay alive and bring them to court and there SWAT them like a fly.

The irony is that [in the case of the intellectually blind who never hit the target when they criticize] I have explained to someone like you before that this is always the case if one’s mental antennae does not filter the right information from the airwave because it grows upside down in the wrong side of the head. Anyone who has grown such a bad horn in the head must have to outgrow this serious infirmity. Hopefully in your case, someday you will be able to catch up with the views of others correctly before you pull the trigger and shoot them dead! Got the meaning …?

Force begets force, bah [!]… tell that to others with a kindergarten mentality like yours … not to Bakadude.

Force begets force Bakadude, somehing you have just not been able to grasp quite yet and this policy is not only failing our Citizens it is failing our world. Malum prohibitum force creates conflict, the basis of this particular issue, and the ignorant are being mislead into believing that it is in the best interest of the majority when it is really meant as a method of maintaining massive redistribution of wealth programs to reditribute money from the majority to the oligarchs.  Hopefully you'll catch on someday dude.    

When the twisting of the words - the semantics - becomes the spirit behind the law, then the law produced thereby is probably illegal. And it becomes illegal with certainty when the spirit of the foundational laws - the constitutions and the maxims of law - are set aside and virtually destroyed thereby.

Within the relatively small area of focus that exists in the daily processes and procedures, much of the law might seem right. But in the overall, big picture, it may not be right at all.

The saying "might makes right" is an entirely incorrect concept. "Might" may be the cause behind the existence of what exists. But that doesn't make "might" right.

With regard to that which is the foundation of the foundational laws of our country and states - the SPIRIT of the Constitution and the Maxims of Law - what happened to Jose Guerena and many others was entirely illegal, even though it might have had much of the appearance of legality.

Law enforcement has put their foot in it with regard to Jose Guerena. He will forever be innocent, even if some form of evidence proves him guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt. Why? Because no matter what they do, they can never get Jose Guerena into a position to face his accusers in a court of law, to be judged guilty by a jury of his peers, as due process requires. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of his peers stands, no matter how much garbage they record in their books. 

    Larken, just break the law yourself because according to your distorted mind OBEYING THE LAW IS IMMORAL. Then you will prove to yourself HOW INSANE YOU ARE by preaching  this crap… end of discussion.

    By the way just in case it just slipped out of your State-bashing fogged out mind, it was the ex-Marine and the family Gang engaging in illegal and criminal activities that triggered the raid, not the SWAT team going there inside their premises for a picnic or for a killing practice, got it?.

    If to live in the United States that has a Government is not right and to defy the authorities by breaking the law because according to your State-hate-eaten mind it is your "moral" right to do so, then you are the last person to lecture anyone about what is moral or not, and what is right or wrong.  But even then you have to be in touch with reality first. You are not even aware that you are a very angry preacher of violence in Cloud Nine. So get cured first and let your feet touch the ground … maybe by that time I might waste my time again with you.  Right now I am done with you. Nothing real gets to you.

      PureTrust, I’d like to talk to you about the issuance of WARRANT in law enforcement as it relates to the 4^th A.  But that’s totally a different ball game than what was played in the Guerena raid. If you are a lawyer and have some long years of law practice behind you like me, that’s what you are going to do – challenge Pima County for the legality of the issuance of that warrant.  But let’s not drag Larken there … that’s too sane for him to comprehend … too normal for him to understand.  I think I still like you.  You have something “deep” in you that I still like to explore. The public shouldn't be blind-sided with murderous emotion. That's what you and I can do and should do if this Guerena killing needs to be discussed any further.

In case anyone thought I was exaggerating, "Bakadude" was nice enough to completely confirm everything I just said, by saying this: "What is prohibited by law, means you cannot and shouldn’t do it, okay, buddy?" No, not okay. You see, some of us understand that morality does NOT come from politician scribbles, and that politician scribbles have NO BEARING on what is right and what is wrong. You, on the other hand, being a devout state-worshiper, think that anything "illegal" must be evil, and therefore "law enforcement" is always inherently righteous. You are insane. What's sad is that you paid money to go to school to become insane. 

Since when does warrant issuing equate with GUILTY so let's EXECUTE.

Since when does warrant issuing equate with GUILTY so let's IGNORE THE 4TH AMENDMENT.

More than likely, ex-Marine, Jose Guerena, was thinking to himself, "Some neighborhood emergency... SWAT is out. I'll go offer these, my brothers in law enforcement, whatever services I can render."

And then, surprise, surprise, as the door comes crashing in. "Why, they are pointing their weapons at ME!!!" Surprise and shock, "The weapons are firing. My brothers are shooting at ME!!! Why? Why? Why? I am on your side! You can stop shooting! You don't need to shoot so many times. Oh the pain!"

This is not the way that warrants are to be served in the land of the free and the home of the brave. No matter how guilty someone might be, innocent until proven guilty.

      To PureTrust – I like your previous comment, but not this one where you MISINTERPRET  the ugly facts I presented that nobody wrote about THIS ONE PARTICULAR EX-MARINE of which a warrant of Pima County was issued for the SWAT team to conduct a surprise raid of his house on May 5, 2011 and the rest of the family Gang. The surprise raid with a warrant was not conducted for fun, so that the raiding law enforcement officers would enjoy shooting an ex-Marine dead! Start looking at this case from this angle.  It will give you a 20-20 vision.

       And because I dared to open drowsy eyes with goopy eyelids to unlawful and criminal activities of which THIS ONE PARTICULAR EX-MARINE was involved – what did you say … I lost respect of the WHOLE MARINE CORP? Why are you going there? What are you trying to do … bring down the whole United States Marine Corp on me? C’mon, buddy …wake up! Let’s have our morning coffee and enjoy the day. But please don’t pour vinegar, salt and pepper into my cup of coffee. That’s not the right way to start a beautiful bright sunny day at this time of the year.

      Mr. Chip Saunders, you have mistaken me as your son-in-law with a chopstick mentality who is now living in Hong Kong. Get over with it, Mr. Chip Saunders. Brush that racial chip off your shoulder.

     And Larken Rose … when will you ever learn? When the Government or the State tells you not to break the law, THAT’S NOT FASCISM. When you obey the law, THAT’S NOT “PURE STATE-WORSHIP” that your distorted view of reality had manacled you for life!

      What is prohibited by law, means you cannot and shouldn’t do it, okay, buddy? When you were a rebellious fun-loving teenager and your mother told you not to do your bowel movement on the floor for fun, it was NOT because your MOTHER was a FASCIST in your home who loves to impose her will on you. To resist your mother is not a fight for liberty and freedom that you think it is, just as to resist with force law enforcement when you break the law, is not and never is the right thing to do, got it?  When one “disobeys” the law, it is not disobeying politicians … this crooked thinking that you have makes one looks like a retarded or a person with mental disability who is just starting to understand what law and order means, and what normal life looks like or going to be.

       Don’t tell people to resist law enforcement officers with force when they arrest lawbreakers and haul them to jail. I told you before … break the law yourself, and apply your philosophy from hell to fight your way out when police officers come to get you. Or just run a red light at Elmer Street three or four more times if the first time didn’t land you in the hospital, cemetery or in jail. See what happens.  That’s the only way to end your folly, and stop this stupid post you printed below.

"Bakadude" is a fascist, who calls himself a libertarian, in the hopes of keeping as many people mentally enslaved as possible. This post is a prime example of pure state-worship, and the evil it leads to. His entire position can be summed up as follows: "The politicians said you're not ALLOWED to have pot, so it's EVIL to have pot, and righteous to use any amount of violence necessary against people who disobey!" Bakadude is perhaps the most thoroughly indoctrinated state-worshiper I know, which is really saying something. His posts demonstrate that he really cannot fathom how anyone could ever think that disobeying politicians ("breaking the law") might be the RIGHT thing to do, or how anyone could ever imagine that "law enforcement" (violently imposing the will of politicians upon everyone else) could ever be a BAD thing to do. So I'll up his blood pressure some more, with a little literal reality and moral objectivism:

1) Initiating violence is bad.

2) Defending yourself against attacks is justified.

 3) What "the law" says has NO bearing on 1) and 2).

Ergo, if Jose Guerena was trafficking in marijuana as the feds allege, and the feds invaded his home as a result, he had the absolute right to gun down every one of those Nazi bastards, to stop that invasion. As a general rule (contrary to what Bakadude claims), I highly suggest people NOT do such things, because they'll almost always get themselves killed in the process. Nonetheless, in the question of morality, there is no way to make the armed invading thugs the good guys in this case, no matter what version of the story you believe. People who understand the non-aggression principle--also known as "libertarians"--understand that. Comrade Bakadude doesn't.

Which makes me ask the question: "Were there any ex-Marines among that SWAT team?"

Used to be that Marines didn't simply take orders. They were expected to size up the situation and do what was right according to the Constitution and their Oath. Or is this something only left for the Seals and Special Forces these days?

Marines, you better get back home and see what your brothers are doing in your absence.

 But since you are located in Hong Kong, I doubt you know anything about this.

 I'm curious how it is you seem to have information that has not been released to the rest of us. Are you able to comment authoritatively on this because you are in Law Enforcement? If so, I would very much (and respectfully) like to speak with you about these details you have, such as the select-fire AK-47 you reference (which you seem to say was separately also present along with the unfired AR-15 the police have only mentioned so far). I am sincere in my desire to calmly and respectfully get details from you the rest of us are being denied.