US President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin held a phone conversation on Thursday. They agreed to meet soon, probably in Budapest, Hungary. Mr. Trump called the phone call "very productive." Both leaders agreed there will be a high level meeting, likely the week of October 20th. According to Trump, the US initial meetings will be led by Secretary of State Marco Rubio, together with various other people, to be designated.

President Trump has called for a ceasefire in Ukraine and an end to the war in that country. Trump's cabinet officials said they want "any sort of ceasefire."

The choice of language is important. The Russians have said that a ceasefire in place without conditions would allow Ukraine to build up its arms supplies and recruit more soldiers for the battlefield. Of course, the same is also true for Russia.

But what sort of conditions would be attractive to Putin and Trump? Trump wants the fighting stopped. This is a key point, because it is more than army units fighting on the ground. Also involved are attacks on each other's territory.

The Russians have persistently gone after Ukraine's critical infrastructure plus some military targets. Likewise, using drones and systems such as Himars, Ukraine has attacked Russia's infrastructure including refineries, electrical power facilities, rail lines and military targets such as airfields and radar sites.

It makes sense that both sides would have to cease mutual attacks of this kind.

The Russians want some sanctions relief, especially respecting oil and gas transit and customers. Trump has singled this sector out to put pressure on the Russian government thinking that Russia's economy cannot sustain a war without earned income from natural resources. Trump is in a position to trade some or all of the sanctions (and bring Europe into the equation) in exchange for a halt to the fighting.

Once again the two leaders discussed economic cooperation when the war stops.