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Comment by foundZero
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That spoke eloquently and diplomatically. I trust the writer and await more analysis that will inevitably follow.

This quest for "unification" and "leadership" has been brought to me and other technologists of the movement and I can tell you that all the mechanical stuff is there in great redundancy. There are heaping piles of technologies and flight plans and treatises and manifestos. Fact is, we seem to have our own evolutionary thing going because the movement is constantly trying ALL solutions at ALL times.

One thing I've observed is everybody has to brand the trip. It's always this "get behind me" thing that kills a project. The best projects just sort of happen. I'm a huge believer in collective action. There's an aspect of spontaneity that seems to be key. The movement is in fact very dynamic. If you leave for 6 months now, you come back to a whole new spectrum.

Indeed, the scholars of the movement might fail to realize how the new generation isn't particularly evangelical, isn't too hung up on Christianity (or non-Christians), we're much more comfortable with Latinos (we grew up with them or we are them in many cases) but we're MASSIVELY SOCIALLY LIBERAL. And a very large faction has neither love nor allegiance to the GOP.

Ernie stops just short of debunking a generational aspect....before he goes ahead and inserts it plainly back into the picture. And I kind of have an idea who was there, enough to know the music. But I know there were a lot of youth there and just having the generations meet and mix like that is kind of where it's at. The music just changed.

We've never had a convocation like this before. It's another first. I think the youth will be initiating more in the future. Now is especially a time for innovation.


Comment by Don Wills
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An eloquent sales job for anarchism (aka pure libertarianism)! No, I'm not talking about bomb throwers. The solution Ernest advocates is agorism, an ivory tower fantasy of free markets without the need for government. Agorism and its ilk have very little in common with the constitutional republic that was created two centuries ago, which many of us would like to see a return to (no not all the way, we can do without voting being limited to white male property owners).

Ernest seems terrified that a "collective" of liberty-loving folks will turn into something worse than what we have now. First, it's ridiculous to fear something that doesn't exist, and may never. And second, we've not yet seen the end game for the road we're on now which I suspect will be mighty bad for individual sovereignty.

If the goal is to get back to something like what the founders designed (which I understand to be the reason for the Jekyll Island gathering), the question becomes - how do we get there? A Continental Congress or Constitutional Convention seems reasonable; a similar gathering is what gave us the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Yes, many fear Obama and company would co-opt it to their own nefarious ends, but has anyone got a better idea? ? ? Didn't think so.

OK, so how do we make a ConCon happen? The answer is to become a large "collective" and force it to happen. Good leadership will be required, and many more devoted followers must be engaged. Ernest will disagree with such a course of action, fearing that such a collective would be worse than the Demopublican mafia that runs the place now. He's simply wrong. Collective action (ie. unity) *and* leadership will be necessary to achieve our goals.


Comment by foundZero
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Comment by: Don Wills Entered on: 2009-05-25 10:41:57 states that "An eloquent sales job for anarchism (aka pure libertarianism)! "

And that comes dangerously close to being a parody of my comments. If he'd have said "eloquent and diplomatic" I'd have considered this an act of utter hostility and commenced a full-on blog-bash.

And since the spat with Chuck Adkins has cooled off, it's time for some more action around here anyways. The liberal leftists who hate us come here with a certain expectation that we are full of hate and I hate to disappoint them.

Therefore Tom Willis, while I know absolutely nothing about you and will have to improv, I am sure you are some sort of stateist or fascist or an infiltrator from the opposition sent here to sow seeds of disunity and I not only call for you to be censored and permanently banned, I stand shoulder to shoulder and demand to be censored and banned with you. And Chuck Adkins and Frosty Woolridge. And all others except for Jim Stachowiak with whom I will NOT stand shoulder to shoulder with because he does not shower and whom therefore stinks.

Yeah, we did some research on Tom Willis. Found out he double-dips his chips at parties. He's blown his nose at the dinner table in public. And everybody laughs at the fact that he can't match his socks.

See that's how you get a proper flame-war started people. Watch and learn.


Comment by Anonymous
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Government is ipso facto coercive. Always has been and always will be. The founding fathers recognized the need for a central government (a fact that Ernest does not), but tried to keep it as limited as possible. Their plan worked for a while, but the limitations have been eroding for the last hundred years or so. We're now at a turning point where the power of the central government has become essentially unlimited. The specter of Civil War II looms large.


Comment by Ernest Hancock
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Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
George Washington
First president of US (1732 - 1799)

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man's rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. --Ayn Rand


Comment by Ernest Hancock
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What Washington and Rand would have to admit was that the evils of collective force is always the end result of its creation. As individuals attain greater powers (communication, transportation, energy, self-defense etc. the justification for the creation of collective force is diminished to the point that it will seem anachronistic. We will evolve into autonomous beings that voluntarily associate with one another or we will become extinct.


Comment by foundZero
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Ernie, I don't know how you did it, but I think you just explained yourself more concisely than ever before. Which is under 500 words.

Ernie can boil all of human existence, all things into a neat and catchy series of taglines, really good and compelling taglines, but when it comes to himself, we need some serious ink and paper.

Regardless. Don Wills, are you not informed of the fact that we are "ipso facto" in a flame war? Where are the obscenities and steams of invective? What about the baseless accusations and dust in the air?

Man, do you know how to conduct a proper flame war or what?

Screw this, somebody get Adkins in here. I came here looking for a good fight and all you guys want to do is talk esoterics of movement politics.


Comment by Powell Gammill
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Independence: 1776

CONstitution ratified by nine states: 1788

Number of years America somehow prospered without a federal government: 12

Number of years before the Executive Branch broke the CONstitutional restrictions on its powers: 9 (1797 Whiskey Rebellion)

Number of years before the Legislative Branch broke the CONstitutional restrictions on its powers: 10 (1798 Alien and Sedition Acts)

Number of years before the Judicial Branch broke the CONstitutional restrictions on its powers: 15 (1803 Marbury v. Madison)

There may be earlier examples for each branch. But these strike me as the most egregious and clear demonstration of exceeding the limits of the CONstitution. That didn't take long did it?

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men." -- Lord Acton


Comment by Jet Lacey
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Man, oh man would I have liked to jump straight into the middle of this one but, alas, my wife and I are sick at home, most likely infected with H1N1 Swine Flu. (LOL)

Great articles Ernie!


Comment by Jimi Bigbear
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A bit late to the fray here, but just wanted to write that this op-ed/report on the Jekyll Island CONflab is one of the best things I've read this year. Nice work Mr. Hancock!

Adding to what you wrote and Mr. Gammill's comment, with the CONstitution we were screwed from the beginning by what has become the REAL power in this country - the hidden plutocracy - the Establishment. To "go back to the Constitution" is to go back to square one and start all over again down the same road that lead us to this present tyranny. As you deftly pointed out, Ernest, conjuring Patrick Henry as a call to a Constitutional Convention is sacrilege. He wouldn't attend because he "smelled a rat," and he was among the first to point out that the Federalists struck at States' Rights from the first words of the Preamble - "We the People" - presuming to speak for all of us for all time. What arrogance! As Patrick pointed out, it should have said, "We the STATES" (of the Confederacy.)

Recently I have been gratefully introduced to the writings of Lysander Spooner - as original and brilliant as Jefferson I think. Writing after the "civil" war, he did a preemptive attack on Shultz et al's "loyalty oath" to the Union. Please read his No Treason series - especially no VI if nothing else. http://www.lysanderspooner.org/bib_new.htm

I agree with you and the anti-Federalists, Ernest, that we need to DECENTRALIZE power - GUT Washington like the sick pig it is - and MOST IMPORTANTLY - take back the MONEY POWER! The anti-Federalists were concerned that the country THEN was too big for one central government! They had what, 6 million people?!?!?

No where were we more CON'd by the Constitution than with regard to MONEY. What should have been a FOURTH branch of government - getting equal ink with the other three - was held by Hamilton and Morris, doing the bidding of their masters - the owners of the PRIVATE Bank of England, to a few vague sentences!

Two books that I wish everyone would read are The Lost Science of Money by Stephen Zarlenga and The Web of Debt by Dr. Ellen Brown.

The MONEY POWER - embodied in the FED - is the reactor core of the Establishment. We have to take that back and decentralize it into State and City publicly owned banks, with local currencies - issued debt free and free of usury (interest), AND we must take away the money creating power of banks by forever ending fractional reserve banking.

Please don't get caught up in the gold fever that the Libertarians/Alabama Austrians are advocating. The lure of gold backed currency has been the way the Establishment has gained control of a Nation's money for centuries. Over 97% of our money - what passes for it - the PRIVATE currency of the PRIVATE FED - exists as BITS anyway - ledger balances - cyber ciphers. So to get caught up in heated debates about what those BITS should be backed by is to completely be compromised by the Establishment. Divided and fighting amongst ourselves, while they continue to loot, rape, pillage and destroy.

One last agreement with you, Ernest, about the younger generation and the obviation of strong leadership and collectives. The late, great John "The Birdman" Bryant wrote an excellent essay on leaderless metaviolence titled "Final Solution to the Washington Question." While my approach is, I believe, more subtle and therefore more powerful, I concede that this non-violent approach could actually empower his meta-violence solution - but that would actually be much less violent than what will happen otherwise.

Invincibility for America!
Liberty, Peace, Prosperity and Love
Jimi

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