Austin, Texas Plane Crash: Was This a Deliberate Act?
• Fox NewsA small plane crashed Thursday into a multistory office building in what what authorities said may have been a deliberate act by a man upset with the Internal Revenue Service. (READ SUICIDE NOTE HERE)
Did the building collapse into its own footprint yet due to the intense heat of the fires from the airplane fuel?
Did no one catch that this is/was "the Echelon building"?
The guy closed his suicide note with this statement:
"The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed."
That in the midst of him saying he is "dying for freedom"... something doesn't look right.
First suicide note I've seen with hyperlinks.
Guy tells a tale that's becoming familiar, way familiar in the tech world. Yeah that "high tech industry" that was supposed to replace all of our goods producing industry?
It only took a few years lag for India, China, Pakistan, the former Soviet bloc to get PCs, learn English and absorb most of it overseas. Pretty much took most of us down to what the painter or paperhanger brings home.
I know a guy with 3x my development capability that worked his way up to assistant manager of a convenience store and he wouldn't trade all that stability for another tech job for all the tea in China.
I am not surprised ..no not one bit....the IRS is an Illegal Group against the Constitution and the people. But...as we all know...this is NOT our true Government. We've been taken over by those that DO NOT care or protect the Constitution rather than USE it for their own purposes. We need more of these Patriots giving up their lives against the Traitors in DC. All the Arm forces need to not participate in these Illegal Acts. Yes, Violence is the Answer! Must Be. why ? because those in power will never leave or follow the Laws the rest of us have to follow until we've made it clear to them differently. They have been using Violence against the American People for a very very long time. Read your Constitution and see just how your Representatives in Government are in line with it! Otherwise if not, they are the Domestic enemies.
So was this a deliberate act? Well if it wasn't then what's the alternative explanation?
Lesson: if for whatever reason you feel like your life is worthless you are too few steps away from considering everybody else's life worthless.
So why not hit the IRS building instead of an apartment complex? Motive?
Don't know if it is true but I've heard there is already a move on to petition the Pope to canonze this guy. He would certainly qualify as a polital martyr, albeit a militant one, and I'm sure among many groups he will be remembered as a patriot, giving his all for freedom.
Well gosh, this morning the media was reporting a plane hit an apartment building. That is what I get for not keeping up with disaster stories...or trusting the lamestream media.
Temper Bay, "giving his all for freedom?" Well he gave a few other people's all too. It's looking like he tried to burn his house down with his family inside of it. If the story as it's emerging is true, I don't see this guy going down as any hero.
Taking innocent life is morally repugnant.
The pilot's 7 page letter
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html
Powell, don't worry about it, the first report I got was a plane had crashed into a house, causing it to burn, pilot dead but occupants unharmed.
Then I thought the pic of the burning office building on FP to be one of your usual editorial tricks of broadening the statement of the poster.
This story came a long way in a few hours.
I just saw an interview of an eye witness who stated that she saw a fire truck and hazmat crew on site before the crash happened.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gItV-ENkxPY#t=2m50
Also, Infowars is reporting that FBI agents were dispatched yesterday from DFW to Austin:http://www.prisonplanet.com/source-fbi-knew-austin-attack-was-coming.html
Perhaps Oyate, but the last news report I heard was that the family pulled up to the already burning house - so, if true, he didn't try to waste his family.
I don't have sympathy for any IRS personnel killed. I agree that taking innocent lives is morally repugnant but that hardly applies to the IRS; that organization has taken more innocents out and destroyed countless more then this clown could have ever hoped to do.
Temper Bay, I know your lack of sympathy is quite different from advocation, but there will always be differences in morality between individuals.
The universally-preferable response to differences in morals is ostracism - other responses are plagued with inconsistencies.
The universally-preferable response to physical threats against persons and property is protection of persons first, and then property.
If, as Stack suggests, the government was threatening to confiscate his wealth, that is a threat against his past. By endangering lives, though, Stack threatened those people's present and future; that's not an ethical nor universally-preferable response.
That's the long way of saying, "two wrongs don't make a right."
This tragic act reminds me of the final scene in "Falling Down" where the fellow has a thousand mile stare, looks quizzically at the cop, and says "How did that happen? I did everything they told me too ..." Damn. I wish I did not understand EXACTLY how these guys felt. But, I do. I ...do.
Temper, not to gang up on you, but Brock and I are in rare consonance "as given what we know". Which are thus: it is very hard to construe what we know now (as reported) as being the actions of a man of honour or even sanity.
This is hard for our movement to digest but it's something I allowed to that woman from the SPLC I was talking to a while ago, what's-her-name, but in a moment of candor I had to wonder if, like "it's probale that our rhetoric attracts nut cases in our day as yours did in your liberal communistic sphere in your day".
And what's-her-name did not refute the statement but rather said "yes, that is very possible".
OK kids, you want the bad news or the good news first?
The good news is we advanced the message further in the past 3 years than we have in the past 30.
The bad news is we're all associated with nut jobs now. And it will take a LONG time to get over this one because the MSM has and is about to do a joberoo on us.
My final judgement on this plane crash terrorist thing is this bones bigtime.
Fuck, I just caught myself in one of my own personal traps;
And activist never complains but gets busy on a solution.
By saying "this bones" I just obligated myself to provide a solution.
This one is hard teaching. I take from the "suicide note" which as Denninger correctly identifies as a "homicide note".
This man's history clearly tells a story of a guy trying to do right, but who was repeatedly screwed. In this story which I first skimmed and then read with Denninger's insight, shows me a man who had given up on himself and his own worth as a man. And one of my early comments was to observe how thin a line it is between a person feeling like they are worthless and feeling like everybody else is too.
My experience as a former EMT and other things shows me this.
MY COUNSEL: I have seen many people now who were formerly awesome people destabilize psychologically. I adjure you people to be alert for persons who exhibit anormal behavior EVEN IF THEIR FINACIAL SITUATION SEEMS TO EXPLAIN IT.
And I will tell you people, with the modern-day level of chemical dependency and mood-altering drugs people seem to take, it might sometimes mask the symptoms of a person falling apart.
I do not see the "news" as reported on these events as being "fact", it seems that there is much more on this storey than a patriot wigging out and trying to kill people. I suspect that we are seeing pathology.
In a time such as this, I suggest our first duty is to simply take a moment of silence, each in ourselves and honor the innocent victims and then try to figure out some kind of answer. Not to necessarily take responsibility in this action, but to try to be alert and look out for one another, because if this man's storey is true, where did we fail to hear it before? Why does it come to us as a surprise?
Why did this man not reach out to us before or if he did, where did we fail to recognize this threat?
Obviously we cannot be responsible for all actions of independent men, but as we grow into being a community, let us not first seek to assign blame outwards, let us first look inwards and see if the seeds of evil exist in us.
I know it is early but our purpose is to protect the weak. In this instance, the weak are not our own. They are innocent bystanders. Our first job is to seek the healing of the community at large. How we do this is up to all of us. Each of us in our way. It's what we do best.
Wopi La Tonka.
I smell a psy-op! The fact alone that fire fighters and hazmat were there before the incident and that the buildings 200 employees were not seriously injured given the damage to the building. This incident will create a lot of effects, one being that it will be harder for private individuals to get pilot licenses and there will be tighter screenings for those who get licenses, also higher fees which will keep a lot of private people from flying. This also gives pretext for the upcoming assasination attempt on obama, people will blame the right and there will potentially be race riots....thus ushering in martial law. Also, there's a good chance that this will be the summer of hell. If you have the chance to move to the countryside, do it! you'll be far safer when shit hits the fan. The guy was a nut, yes he got screwed over. BUT he chose to throw away his life as well as attempt to kill people to whom he was nothing but a number on a computer screen. Personally, my life is worth far more than any bureacrat and i'd never throw mine away on one.
Sanity? Oh yea, Oyate, there is no doubt this guy was waaaaay over the edge. To check out by flying a plane into a building he had to be a real loony in his last hours - yet I'll bet some will still see him as a patriotic loony and ranking not too far behind those yahoos at the Alamo.
Bye the bye - what is SPLC?
PREDICTION: Whether he actually was or was not;...this man WILL be linked to the Tea Party crowd. Remember all the militia hysteria surrounding Tim McViegh;...even though he was never in nor sought out any militia group?
Watch how they play this. It will be ugly.
It's too bad it didn't "collapse" like building 7 with everyone in it. Maybe that's a bit too harsh... There may have been a poor janitor or two inside amongst all those thugs.
This event troubles me deeply, first Gregory Girard of Massachusetts arrested for weapons,food stock pile and alledged comments on martial law,court ordered to undergo mental evaluation. Now Joe Stack acting in a rash manner, I'm fearfull of the knee jerk reaction this will cause. People please keep a eye out I think S1959 might be revived soon, and if it is then we are all in deep trouble.
"These people who work in those buildings are not innocent victims. If they work in the federal building, they're the very people that are typing the letters, that are making the phone calls, that are getting your land taken away from you, that are calling you up on Internal Revenue Service, that want to confiscate all of your guns. These are the same people who womp up charges against you. These are the very same people that are all involved, every one of them. I don't care whether they are any more than a clerk or the high muckety-muck, or the guy out there who's got BATF painted on this back, and he's the one who's knocking your door down. These people are not innocent victims. These are people that operate and move the system against you and I. These are people that have sold out to the system. These are the people that are against you and I." --John Dayl, on the Oklahoma City Bombing, talk radio host for KFYI, Phoenix, from July 21, 1996.Anyone who believes that is a real 'suicide' note for more than one second should have THEIR head examined. It's all just too convenient and 'cute'. What a joke. Nor have I ever seen a suicide note with hyperlinks! and a suicide note that talks about Ritz crackers and ponders childhood feelings? weird. Smells like another SPLC supported event.
WTG Temper. We have to be careful where we construe logic in reality. Sometimes they got nothing to do with each other.
As to this rhetoric of "they got what was coming to them", I'm not at peace with this for at one time they said that about us Indians and before they said that, they said we were heretics and before that they said we were pagans and before that they said we were Christians and before that, well, it was pagans and before that it was something else I forgot.
Our philospohy is great because it allows those people not to be "those people" but individuals.
Now if I had been out on those steps with my trusty rifle and saw the airplane on a collision course, I would have opened fire to try and knock that airplane out the the sky not to defend the IRS but the INDIVIDUALS inside that building. And if I had, I don't think I would have had time to consider the MOTIVES or the POTENTIAL JUSTIFICATION of the pilot, I just would have opened fire. Not because I hate the pilot, it's just I would have felt there were a whole lot of HUMANS in that building. And given as it's an office building, there might have been a higher than normal percantage of women in cute business skirts in that building which would have impelled my natural defense instinct, especially if I might have dropped my pretty wife off there for work that day.
This was a slaugher of innocents. I don't care if you guys don't care that the body count has to be in the 100s or 1000s to make a difference to you, to me, 2 is exactly and precisely 2 too many. 1 is one too many.
Man I hate to break this to you but even some of the "Waco Murderers" are really, really bent to this day. And I would not trade their position for ours any day because we are clean. We are not murderers.
Given the reports as we know them, much as I feel for this guy, this was not a warrior's death, this was not a good thing.
It is one thing for a man to defend himself and his people.
It is one thing for a man to attack his enemies.
It is even one thing for a man to attack his perceied enemies.
But this man, if the tales be true, attacked people he did not even know. And this is honorless. And it's irreconcilable with our values as libertarians. Otherwise what the liberals say us about us is true: conservative value of life ends at birth.
I say no. And from this spot I will not move. By Gods, I think I just became a Dog Soldier.
From this spot I will not move. But this time I know when I fave this wave of attack, when I look back, I will see my brothers nailed to their stakes and holding firm.
This day we will not give in to the forces of hated and intollerance. Not this day and not when this sun rises.
Anybody takes a notion to do random violence as this sun rises better eat your Wheaties because Oyate is come to town.
Reasoning from the converse:
Do you take time to pray before you paint your face and go into battle?
Oh wait, you guys don't paint your faces.....
Do you take time to pray before you go into battle?
Do you think Joe Stak prayed to his ancestors before he did what he did?
I mean do you think he did? Me, I dunno, I'm asking you. Do you think he saw the sun rise and asked God if he should kill?
I'm just asking you. Because such things are not unknown to my people and my teachers. Heck, the people of my Lakota teachers, you think the guys were blood thirsty? Shit man, it's said the women used to line up as the braves went along the path and they sang "we are Lakota women, you bring us the penises of our enemies or we will chop off yours upon return".
Sound familliar to any of you men? He. Kidding, but the point is there have been many warriors, many braves on this land. Some make it into songs. Some just fuck it up. Even in Lakota terms, this guy totally fucked it up: he neither brought penises to the tipi, he tried to burn it down and his family inclusive. I'm just saying this death makes no sense in the old ways or the new. All it did was bring up hard feelings at a time when the people don't need any more bad news.
AND I'LL TELL YOU ANOTHER THING. WESTERN MEDICINE. WE NOTICED,
we noticed that "depression" untreated will make a person inward-turning and selfish. They don't properly consider the feelings of others. Dominant culture treats this with anti-depressants and serratonin-uptake inhibotors and Gods knows what, but we have a different teaching. A whole different diagnosis and treatement.
What we call this is "muneishnuk", the "turn-around sickness". We see it in mare Moose. When she turns muneishnuk, she just turns around in circles, always trying to get at something just around the corner that never comes,
and she will get so distracted by this that she will trample her foals under foot and kill them. In other words, she will do the exact opposite of what she's supposed to do which is protect and defend and nurture the foals.
Bull moose never get this disease it seems but humans get it both male and female. Example: this guy just tried to kill his own wife and their child. Muneishnuk. Listen to his life's story: going in circles.
Know how we treat muneishnuk traditionally among women?
You grab them with force and shove them into the women't Long House and just hope they can deal with it.
Know how we dealt with muneishnuk among men? When all else failed? When we tried everything else?
We bound you arm and leg, head to toe and we threw you into a river or lake and said "if you want life, you better fight for it now because we can't save you".
Sounds tough but who wants a muneishkuk in the camp? They might flay an airplane into a building and besides, the women and kids have been cooped up for hours on the long house and if we're gonna do something, let's just get 'er done.
That was the old days and the old ways. I'm not saying we should just go dropping people into water like bread crumbs, I'm just saying there's a way we should be proactive in our own community somehow. Like, maybe we should all keep a lookout for folks that are too hot and lathered and might not be patiots, they might just be plumb bonkers. Or maybe needing a higher level of counseling than your average political activist organization is prepared to deal with.
I think that's the odd teaching of how we delt with muneishnuk is we try as a people to just identify it, isolate it from ourselves and we reaffirm that we're the reason why we all go on together and somehow we go on together and get better.
Now I have been open for many years to an alternative to drowning the muneishnuk in a lake and we can still heal as a sommunity, I'm all ears.
Oyate,
You're either just about the looniest person who ever existed or you're a government TROLL (my vote). Who has time to spew such ridiculous diatribe except someone who is paid to do it? Seeing who and what your arrows will stick to. You say you're coming to town? I say GO AWAY.
it's said the women used to line up as the braves went along the path and they sang "we are Lakota women, you bring us the penises of our enemies or we will chop off yours upon return".
Sounds to me like your tribe's women folk need to have their heads examined. No, better yet, your men need their heads examined. Looks like your tribe is a Amazon tribe. Let your women run your men !!!!!
Oyate
You need to know one thing in war you kill people you don't know, the military uses propaganda or racisim to get you to kill without much thought, it is drilled into you " killing is fun-fun is killing" . Your comment that it wasn't a warriors death, a few Japanese might disagree with you, remember the Kamikazi, they dove there planes into ship loads of men he didn't know.
If you notice Oreilly only mentioned the IRS part of the letter. He failed to mention the corrupt bankers and corporations, and polititions that Joe stack wrote about. Its about what the tea party movement is all about. It want's to clean out the Whorehouse Washington DC, The District Of Criminals. The rest of the controlled press failed to mention the corporations and crooked bankers, described by Joe stack.Oreilly thinks hes a sohisticated smartass from Harvard PU. The probliem is too many in Washington came from these dum, dum colleges. Rhodes Scholars all they ever acomplished was to take care of their political bosses and crooked corporations. Joe stacks is an American hero,He gave his life to make a statement for us the American people. God bless Joe stack. Joe S
Texas is not homeland of Bush family? maybe the was needing something real¡¡¡¡and fresh¡¡ regards
LoTek, communism is very pro-freedom. I understand you probably suffer from US propaganda, and probably even believe that the USSR fulfilled the tenets pf communism. But they were state capitalists, not much different than the US, dictator-run and brutally imperialistic. Stalin was about as "socialist" or "communist" as Dubya or Obama (same diff) are "democratic." Leaders use nice words to describe what they are doing, even if communism or democracy have literally nothing to do with what they are doing. [Note: socialism was attained briefly after the revolution, but was taken over by Stalin's dictatorship.]
http://dbzer0.com/blog/misunderstanding-communism-its-not-ussr
Please show me ANYTHING that backs up your statement about communism being very pro freedom. I'm not talking about Marxism, I'm talking Communism. There is no possible way that from each man's ability to each man's need could ever coexist with freedom and individual liberties. What if I don't want to participate... then what?