FREEDOM FORUM: Discussion

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Comment by Powell Gammill
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" . . . .  past LP candidates John Hospers, Roger MacBride, Andre Marrou, Bob Barr, and Gary Johnson were all supporters of Israel. . . . "

Oh, well hell, where do I sign?!  :-D

Comment by Powell Gammill
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Actually, is there still a national party?  

 

And does anyone care?

Comment by Powell Gammill
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". . . . When Jewish Libertarians gathered on the Libertarian Party's Facebook page in 2012, an election year, to criticize anti-Jewish U.S. Senate candidate John Jay Myers, five Jewish libertarians were banned from your Facebook page by Mr. Myers himself . . . ."

You didn't expect an NLP candidate to behave like a libertarian did you?  Well, that was your error.  A NLP candidate behaving libertarian would soon find themselves denounced and replaced.

Comment by Powell Gammill
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"A vile anti-Semite named Ernest Hancock has been treated with respect for decades by your party. . . . ."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Comment by Joe Blow
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I read until I got to: "known anti-Semite Ron Paul"  then my brain turned off. It's too early for this non-sense. Where is my coffee? I thought they only pulled that out when it is an election year. They got Ernie in there too, I'm surprised they didn't say he penned every article on the website, because we all know what a control freak he is and approves of everything on here.

 
Comment by Joe Blow
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And bully on the princess bride reference.  Yeah, he's anti approximately one third of the population of the earth. Lol.

Comment by J E Andreasen
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I suppose I should weigh in.  This issue is much like untangling a long rope, only to find the knotted mess contains several ropes. 

Let’s tackle the easy one first.  Anyone who believes the National Libertarian Party has any relation (other than historical) to libertarianism is deluded.  Therefore, who cares if a pointless ineffectual and largely ineffectual political party opposes either the modern State of Israel or Jews?  In varying degrees this applies to many if not most state party organizations.  And the LP’s  Facebook page.  Wow.  When are we going to have that pool party with the Young Democrats (hot chix, BTW)?  That’ll bring liberty to America in out lifetimes.  Right.

Ron Paul has been a player in the modern libertarian movement for a very long time.  Because of this he carries some problematic baggage (mostly pretty old baggage) which comes from this movement (to which I shall return).  Is he a Jew Hater?  I really don’t think so.

The issue of CAIR, HAMAS, etc is problematic.  Many Muslim organizations are a mixed bag.  Because of Political Islam, they often act in a range of roles, from slaughtering innocents to maintaining reliable garbage collection services, and everything in between.  It is fair to say, however, that if you care anything for the LP, and its reputation (I do not), one should be careful about with whom one partners.

Does the liberty movement have Jew Haters in its ranks?  Yep.  But, really not more than most political organizations.  How about the LP? Because it is a Party, and thus attracts folks who are a bit more hierarchical in nature, perhaps a few more.  In fact, the timing of the LP’s formation made it susceptible to the natural rooting for the underdog being uncritically applied to the so-called “Palestinians”.   The admixture of folks from fundamentalist Christian backgrounds mixed in a fair dose of triumphalism into the liberty movement’s world view.  Even such icons as Murray Rothbard, fell victim to the underdog blindness issue.  I cut my teeth in this movement in the 1970’s.  Go back to reading the early stuff.  You’ll see.

As to the modern State of Israel, well…  It has been accurately described as schizophrenic, and that it is.  It is a modern, eurocentric, largely Socialist, Nation-State.  And therein lies its faults.  On the other hand, it is the Homeland of the Jews.  In my not-at-all-humble opinion, it thus has the potential of being at the epicenter of all things good for mankind.  Its mere existence is bold testament to the miracles wrought by G-d himself.

I understand the frustration of those who have organized this petition.  I sympathize with some of their views.  But, were it relevant to me, I would not sign.

  

 

 
Comment by Sharon Jarvis
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She forgot all the links to the writings of Stephen Lendman who never met an Israeli he liked.  And I almost stopped coming to the FP website after they linked to a pretty vile anti-Semitic blog about a week ago.

 As for Ron Paul, don't expect the Libertarians to decouple from him.

Comment by David Macko
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Comment by David Macko
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Comment by tea party
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I'm sick and tired of non interventionists being called names. It's as bad as liberals using the racism card. Libertarians are NOT neocons!

Comment by David Macko
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Comment by David Macko
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MACKO'S RESPONSE TO “Petition to the LP to Stop Anti-Jewish Behavior” at http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Article/138299-2013-07-17-petition-to-the-lp-to-stop-anti-jewish-behavior.htm

 

It is a very high honor to be connected with the greatest living American statesman, Dr. Ron Paul, and other L/libertarian patriots such as Ernest Hancock, whom I supported for Libertarian Party National Chairman in 2010, and activist for liberty, justice and peace, Carol Moore, who is highly praiseworthy despite our differences regarding the right to life.

However, I have a responsibility to bring the libels, falsehoods and other factual errors in this petition to the attention of as many people as possible. Other than Bruce Cohen, Aaron Bitterman and Josh Weitzman, I am not really familiar with the petitioners. The fact that they are willing to libel Ron Paul as an anti-Semite is certainly as strong reflection on their total lack of judgment. As to Cohen and Bitterman, I do not know them personally.

Regarding Josh Weitzman, he was an activist in the Libertarian Party of Ohio from the early 2000s until after 2004. Among other bad advice which Weitzman tried to give me was not to discuss the Federal Reserve System since the American people were not smart enough to understand it. Dr. Paul exposed the falsity of that contention a few years later. Weitzman also tried to sabotage Michael Badnarik's brilliant outreach and educational effort to hold a vote recount in Ohio after the 2004 election. He also opposed me consistently regarding many other issues including those having nothing to do with Zionism. I did not consider it a great loss to the cause of liberty when he left the LPO and became a Republican.

I checked the sources to which the petitioners allude and I could not find anything erroneous in any of them other than the late George Lincoln Rockwell's adherence to national socialism. However, even that commentary did have illustrative material which could be used to advance the cause of liberty.

I have seen no evidence that Carol Moore is an “Anti-Jewish activist...” She, like myself, opposes the crimes of the Zionist state of Israel against the people of Palestine and brutal attacks such as that on the U.S.S. Liberty. http://www.lewrockwell.com/2001/05/eric-margolis/the-uss-liberty-americas-most-shameful-secret/. That can only be defined as anti-Jewish if you define anti-Jewish as failure to kowtow totally to the Zionist state of Israel.

I am not anti-Jewish. I have no hatred of any Jews except those such as Karl Marx who created the horrible theory of so-called “modern” Communism, those such as the Jew Jacob Schiff who financed the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia and the Jews who made it a totally-Jew controlled operation and murdered 60 million Orthodox Christians, the Zionist Jews who control “our” government, the establishment media and the entertainment industry for the benefit of Israel, and totalitarian Jews such as Chucky Schumer. Ben Shalom Bernanke, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein and Michael Blumberg, who are trying to enslave our country.

I do not deny the facts of The Holocaust or any of the two dozen other holocausts of the twentieth century, some of which were much larger than the official and unproven six million figure or the gas chamber myth, which is scientifically impossible.

Regarding CAIR, the Council on American Islamic Relations, it is important that the LP should invite persons who have a diversity of opinions, especially regarding vital issues such as freedom of religion, speech and the right to travel freely. Mrs. Julia Shearson, a natural born American an officer of CAIR Ohio, had previously reported her harassment for over five hours when she tried to reenter the United States from Canada, based on false information at US Customs. These civil liberty issues, as well as the threat of World War III, should be of issue to all L/libertarians as well as all Americans.

Perhaps that is why the attendance at that meeting was the best in over two years.

Finally, as for the Libertarian Party attracting much Jewish money, for the foreseeable future, unless we become leftist or neocon whores, such as the Democrats and the Republicans, I do not see much of an opportunity for such an outcome. We already have two such parties to betray principles of liberty, justice and peace.

 

 

Comment by Carol Moore
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Just discovered this. The usual intimidation techniques by the usual suspects to stop libertarians from talking about ending aid to Israel or criticizing Zionists and Israel's 100 year history of working to steal Arab land and deprive them of life and liberty when they dare to resist. What's next, "libertarians" supporting making criticism of Israel a hate crime? link text is still made up of libertarians who oppose such censorship and will speak up for the protection of US citizens from the machinations of foreign interests, be they Israelis, Saudis, Ukrainians oligarchs and fascists, Chinese lenders or European bank borrowers. I've been procrastinating about sending in my LP dues but will do so as soon as I get my next dab of the social security dole. Gotta keep putting that money back into making the libertarian revolution after all.

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