Moderated by Judge Andrew Napolitano, the exchange cut directly to the fault lines dividing the modern right into what might be coined the Carlson and Shapiro camps.

Here were the highlights for those who missed it:

"America First means non-interventionism"

Smith argued America First ought to mean "a preference for republicanism, little 'r', over imperialism," citing its earliest presidential use which followed that logic. Woodrow Wilson campaigned on America First by "promising to keep us out of World War I," before reversing course, an example of how presidents often "campaign on one thing and then do the exact opposite."

The phrase was later used "to oppose military adventurism," by figures like Robert Taft and by the America First Committee, which opposed U.S. entry into World War II, and by Pat Buchanan. Donald Trump picked up "the exact same theme," pledging to "break with neoconservatism," reject "regime change wars," and eventually boasting of "no new wars." 

Saying America First means "toppling the Ayatollah" or "flirting with wars of choice, and wars of aggression," Smith said, "is nonsense."

"We're not gonna go fight wars to make the military industrial complex rich… we're not gonna fight wars on behalf of Israel that are not in the interest of the United States of America."

"This is Idiocy"

D'Souza framed his rebuttal around national attachment: "This is our country and our patriotism is based on an attachment to our country." Nations act on interests, where "this guy has a lot of oil and we could use some of that," or "this country has rare earth minerals and we could use some of that."

He stressed that the United States was no longer a weak republic. "We are a powerful country in the world today." Early cautions by John Quincy Adams about not "go[ing] in search of monsters to destroy," reflected, in his telling, the reality of a fledgling state. D'Souza compared that posture to "an infant in the playground" who avoided fights because "I'm three years old," a position that changed "when his position of power is completely different."

For D'Souza, this is realism: "We have ideals and interests and we live in a hostile world." That world included actors who were "beneficial to our interests" and those who were "harmful or inimical to that." He summarized the isolationist stance as "closing your eyes, sticking your two forefingers in your ears… this is idiocy."