Freedom Forum

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LIST OF DISCUSSIONS AND COMMENTS



Date Entered
Headline or Topic of Discussion / Comments
News
06-05-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-05 16:48
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Entered by: Fascist Nation
see also:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/39963.html
6 COMMENTS
2008-06-05 11:08
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Entered by: Anonymous
Mr. Renzulli's column is headed "Objectively Speaking," yet he is firmly against "strengths and weaknesses policies that are geared to point out the so-called flaws in evolution."

Presumably an "objective" observer would embrace the idea of discussing the strengths and weaknesses of any idea, including evolution. Mr. Renzulli, however, states he opposes discussing strengths and weaknesses of evolution ideas in public schools. Opposing open discussion seems to contradict the notion of "objective."

The tenor of Mr. Renzulli's column further reveals an approach that rather discredits the "objective" moniker. His calling a proposal "laughable" is merely to hurl an insult. Insults are not arguments but they tend to reveal the mental state of the writer.

Mr. Renzulli continues:

"ID proponents rely on stealth campaigns (like this) since they know that they have no documented proof or evidence to back up their claims."

Mr. Renzulli offers no evidence to establish that ID proponents "know" they have no documented proof or evidence, yet he claims to know the proponents' intentions. Bald assertions like his, lacking evidence or other logical support, are worthless except as polemic.

Polemic reigns in Mr. Renzulli's piece, as the rest of it reveals (set forth below).

Mr. Renzulli states: "The truth is that none of the science of ID itself could withstand peer review of their findings and ID scientists have dared not submit research articles (if any) to scientific journals because they know their findings would easily be invalidated."

Mr. Renzulli offers no evidence to support his absolute global claim to knowing the "truth" that "none" of ID can withstand peer review. He has offered no evidence for his absolute, global and omniscient statement that "ID scientists have dared not submit research articles to scientific journals." There is no reason to believe, from his article, that Mr. Renzulli has any basis for claiming global knowledge about all of the research articles submitted or not submitted.

Mr. Renzulli calls the ID science and movement "evil." His article offers no rationale showing how he arrived at that moral conclusion, so his epithet is just another insult.

He states: "ID is based on nothing more than speculation and is nothing more than creationism dressed up to be science." Once again, Renzulli offers more global absolute assertions and epithets without a stitch of evidence or argumentation to support them.

One needs only to read the works of William Dembski or Michael Behe, most recently Dr. Behe's recent book, "The Edge of Evolution," to learn the non-religious, non-speculative bases of Intelligent Design theory. Mr. Renzulli fails even to mention these writers or their works, and certainly fails to address their arguments.

Most damaging to Mr. Renzulli's credibility is this sentence: "Darwin's theory is perfect since it relies on rational, objective standards backed up with provable scientific facts."

First, Mr. Renzulli claims the status of "perfect" for Darwin's theory. Calling a scientific idea "perfect" is unusual to say the least. Usually, scientists say that science is a discipline that is continually self-correcting, that it is subject to self-criticism. To my knowledge, not even Einstein's Theory of Relativity (Special or General) is deemed "perfect."

Second, Darwin's theory per se is not really the reigning theory. The current theory falls under the label of "neo-Darwinian" because subsequent ideas were engrafted onto, and modified substantially, what Darwin proposed. Darwin proposed "natural selection" primarily; 20th Century scientists added the insights into random mutation (and now, recombination), about which Darwin knew nothing. Perhaps Mr. Renzulli is unaware of these developments; certainly his article omits them.

Third, there is considerable controversy about how mutations occurred. The late Stephen Jay Gould, a prominent evolutionist, argued for large scale mutations called "saltations," while other evolutionists hold to the theory of evolution by a long series of tiny mutations. With a fundamental premise of evolution embroiled in a massive controversy, it is hard to fathom calling it a "perfect" theory.

Fourth, the theory of evolution relies largely upon historical inferences, not upon experiments. There are no experiments possible to show how horses or kangaroos evolved from previous species, because those are historical events. If Mr. Renzulli's reference to "scientific facts" is encompassing things discovered using the scientific method, then he is quite wrong. The scientific method operates using experiments to test hypotheses. Experiments cannot prove historical events.

Fifth, Mr. Renzulli asserts "provable scientific facts" make Darwin's theory "perfect," but he omits even one of these "provable facts." So the article's triumphant conclusion is factually baseless.

Sixth, referring to the same sentence, Mr. Renzulli does not explain what "provable" means, but that concept is important. One cannot "prove" in the mathematical or logical sense the occurrence of an historical event. One can collect evidence and draw inferences, and perhaps render a final conclusion, but the conclusion will always lack absolute certainty. (Which is why the legal system operates on standards of proof that require a "preponderance of evidence," or at most, a conclusion "beyond a reasonable doubt," but never "certainty.") It seems premature for Mr. Renzulli to claim "perfection" for a theory of historical events that cannot be established with certainty.

Mr. Renzulli's piece concludes with an ungrammatical, ambiguous, ad hominem attack: "Things intelligent design proponents are surely lacking."

As shown (not just insulting stated) here, Mr. Renzulli's piece is "surely lacking" objectivity, and it lacks premises, foundational evidence, or logical inferences to support its sweeping claims.

1 COMMENT
2008-06-05 10:12
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Entered by: Chip Saunders
I'd stand in a loooooooooong line to get to sit in and see this fight go down!

I'll get my popcorn and beer ready.

1 COMMENT
2008-06-05 09:54
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Entered by: GilaRiverRider
Help'em out, the Police State needs more names in the Main Core database. Of course, you might already be listed there...
2 COMMENTS
2008-06-05 03:33
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Entered by: Hawkeye

Hey Goldfarb,will I be invited to this Wide Open Town Hall meeting?.....I don`t think so.
Goldfarb,do your children really know what you do for a living?Are you proud of what you do?Where do you live?I want to post some info on the telephone poles in your neighborhood.
McCain is a Walking Lie,and so are you.
1 COMMENT
2008-06-04 18:28
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Entered by: Gladestone
They sent all their scum up here to get on welfare,
& bleed us dry.So what else is new.
2 COMMENTS
2008-06-04 13:53
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Entered by: Publius
A more intellectual presentation of alternatives to the Ron Paul movement is at:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/husley6.html
1 COMMENT
2008-06-04 13:44
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Entered by: Ernest Hancock
At 4mins & 10 Seconds into the speech you will see how Clinton will argue and win the nomination with the help of the Super Delegates in their 'control' - IMNSHO :)
Article
06-03-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-04 13:06
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Entered by: Michael Wagner
And some people use metal cutters...
Article
06-03-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-04 12:38
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Entered by: Farm Wars
Thank you for the resource! Another good resource is The Blue Letter Bible at:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/

This site contains several different search functions, as well as study tools, a concordance, version selection, maps, and charts.

Barb

2 COMMENTS
2008-06-04 07:31
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Entered by: Fascist Nation
see reply: ;-D
http://www.theagitator.com/2008/06/03/i-suspect-many-will/

Vote? Who said we were going to vote? Who said anyone counted our vote? We just watched Ron Paul's vote. We know better now. -- Powell

Article
06-03-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-04 02:03
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Entered by: Hawkeye
We don`t have to "BEG" the "Songbird" for anything.
We will DEMAND that he look into 911,NOW!!!!.
Americas dosn`t need the approval of pathetic lier,like John McCain.
Why just McCain?
What about "Obama"? He isn`t off the hook either.
While "Obama" is trying to figure out how he`s going to do all the things he say`s he`s going to do,he can add 911 to his list........or else.
2 COMMENTS
2008-06-03 17:33
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Entered by: Gladestone
Amen to that, Chuck is alot better pick then these two aholes.
1 COMMENT
2008-06-03 17:27
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Entered by: Gladestone
They want to push that scumbag mcain down peoples throats.Arrogrant bastards.
1 COMMENT
2008-06-03 17:19
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Entered by: Gladestone
Are all politiacians crooks?
1 COMMENT
2008-06-03 05:46
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Entered by: Fascist Nation
I thought Dr. Block was entirely too generous in comments about the LNC. I found it interesting that both his talk and Anthony Gregory's talk were basically screwed up so few could actually listen to what they had to say do to [deliberate I guarantee] scheduling by the LNC. These were the only bones thrown to the "radical," "purist," "anarchist" libertarians at the convention, and represented a rare opportunity to present that side to a greater audience. The presidential nomination was scheduled to interfere.
1 COMMENT
2008-06-02 22:06
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Entered by: Meria Heller
Blair is a unique American who is actually doing something to get to the truth! He needs our support for sure.
Article
6-2-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-02 19:34
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Entered by: Cindy Cantrell
Thanks for your article Powell. John Stuart wanted me to let you know the following: This is the third judge to see this case, who knows without a doubt that Stuart is innocent in this case, and the other case, yet knows that the guards can torture defendants into making pleas. Any attorney that works in Maricopa County will quickly admit, the biggest problem in the country is, once defendants are placed in county jail, they are starved and tortured so severely, that they will accept three years of prison over one year in the jail. This has led to a lot of innocent people accepting guilty pleas, just so they would survive. Maricopa county jail is considered the worst and moist heinous jail in the country. Arpaio even brags about how he humiliates untried prisoners, and feeds them less than a dollars worth of food a day. Most of the food fed to the inmates is out of date, spoiled, and often moldy. Thus requiring the inmates to by food from Arpaio's store to keep from starving. The prisoners that don't have any money, have to beg the other prisoners for food or starve every day. The sanitary conditions, food conditions, and confinement conditions, are horrendous. According to a former Abu Ghrab guard, the conditions at the Forth Ave jail, are worse than that prison. The guards take sadistic pleasure in torturing the inmates on a daily basis. By the way, the attorneys John had at the hearing on March 26th, were David Cantor and Todd Nolan, not Larry Hammond.
News
06-01-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-02 07:57
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Entered by: Choicemaker
The way we define 'human' determines our view of self,
others, relationships, institutions, life, and future. Many
problems in human experience are the result of false
and inaccurate definitions of humankind premised
in man-made religions and humanistic philosophies.

Human knowledge is a fraction of the whole universe.
The balance is a vast void of human ignorance. Human
reason cannot fully function in such a void; thus, the
intellect can rise no higher than the criteria by which it
perceives and measures values.

Humanism makes man his own standard of measure.
However, as with all measuring systems, a standard
must be greater than the value measured. Based on
preponderant ignorance and an egocentric carnal
nature, humanism demotes reason to the simpleton
task of excuse-making in behalf of the rule of appe-
tites, desires, feelings, emotions, and glands.

Because man, hobbled in an ego-centric predicament,
cannot invent criteria greater than himself, the humanist
lacks a predictive capability. Without instinct or trans-
cendent criteria, humanism cannot evaluate options with
foresight and vision for progression and survival. Lack-
ing foresight, man is blind to potential consequence and
is unwittingly committed to mediocrity, collectivism,
averages, and regression - and worse. Humanism is an
unworthy worship.

The void of human ignorance can easily be filled with
a functional faith while not-so-patiently awaiting the
foot-dragging growth of human knowledge and behav-
ior. Faith, initiated by the Creator and revealed and
validated in His Word, the Bible, brings a transcend-
ent standard to man the choice-maker. Other philo-
sophies and religions are man-made, humanism, and
thereby lack what only the Bible has:

1.Transcendent Criteria and
2.Fulfilled Prophetic Validation.

The vision of faith in God and His Word is survival
equipment for today and the future. Only the Creator,
who made us in His own image, is qualified to define
us accurately.

Human is earth's Choicemaker. Psalm 25:12 He is by
nature and nature's God a creature of Choice - and of
Criteria. Psalm 119:30,173 His unique and definitive
characteristic is, and of Right ought to be, the natural
foundation of his environments, institutions, and re-
spectful relations to his fellow-man. Thus, he is orien-
ted to a Freedom whose roots are in the Order of the
universe. selah

- from
The Season of Generation-Choicemaker Joel 3:14 kjv
1 COMMENT
2008-06-01 22:14
Make a Comment
Entered by: Fascist Nation
see also:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/30/60minutes/main4139413.shtml
Article
05-31-2008
1 COMMENT
2008-06-01 01:05
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Entered by: Hawkeye
Nothing is ever done about these comi`s....just talk.
These people can,and,do,anything the want because Americans are too weak and cowardly to put a stop to it.
All I`ve seen the American people do,what`s left of them, is Talk.
The Greedy,Anti Americans have no reason to fear the people,why should they?
The Comi`s have no resistance to their way`s....NONE!!
They can do whatever they want to the weak,chicken shit Americans...what`s left of them,Americans,anyway.
1 COMMENT
2008-05-31 15:06
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Entered by: Fascist Nation
Yeah, that sugar daddy is really the taxpayer and wage earner watching any savings go to hell.
Article
05-30-2008
4 COMMENTS
2008-05-31 12:05
Make a Comment
Entered by: Mikester
Challenge the Cult!!!
Article
05-30-2008
4 COMMENTS
2008-05-31 11:44
Make a Comment
Entered by: Ernest Hancock
One is running as a Libertarian Party candidate and one is not. One recognizes that my life/body is mine and one does not. I suspect that a lot of the r3VOLution supporters are going to raise the level of awareness for Chuck Baldwin from the Constitution Party as an option (study will show why).

I don't get as worked up about Barr being the Libertarian Party candidate as much as some think I do. But I am very concerned about people making a decision without being fully informed. Blind support of the Libertarian candidate from those that later learn of his history are left to twist in the breeze as their friends and associates beat them over the head. Fully informed they are able to make a more rational argument just as you have.

I'm not so concerned that I wasn't willing to be placed on the Arizona ballot as an elector for Bob Barr and Wayne Root (Barry Hess did also) but my motivations were a bit different than most might think at first glance. Libertarianism in Arizona (activism, fun, our opposition, issues, methods etc.) are far more closely associated with the local activists than with whomever our National candidate for President is. For us to leave Bob Barr's name at the top of the ticket on millions of ballots without the names of activists known to the Arizona voters would not serve the interests of libertarians that count on the word 'libertarian' to be associated with the type of activity here in Arizona that have come to support.

Within 48 hours of the moment that they see Bob Barr's name on the ballot (should they vote on election day) Bob Barr's name and association with the libertarian 'brand' will be a distant memory to most,... and we are in this for the very long haul.

3 COMMENTS
2008-05-31 09:39
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Entered by: scottbieser
This headline doesn't really say what I'm trying to say in the article. So I'll see if I can spell it out more simply: The LP cannot be "saved" in its present form, and should not be. We need a different sort of vehicle, not a political party, to advance our goals. But if we can we should save the "libertarian" brand for that new vehicle. Let the Barristas have the Party, but persuade them to relinquish the name.
Article
05-30-2008
4 COMMENTS
2008-05-31 06:59
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Entered by: lesczynski
he must be planning for a Republican run in 2012

You mean like Ron Paul did after he finished running as a Libertarian? :-)

But seriously, regardless of what you think of Bob Barr and his intentions, it's clear that he's a dead man to the GOP at this point.

1 COMMENT
2008-05-31 06:52
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Entered by: Fascist Nation
see also (Reuters):
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSN3046841720080531
1 COMMENT
2008-05-30 20:05
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Entered by: Josh Goodin
Yet another case of someone "blowing the whistle" just a little too late. Rather than call out a weasle while he's weasling it's better to hold all your info until you're out of the job so you can write a tell-all book. That's looking out for freedom!
Article
5-30-2008
2 COMMENTS
2008-05-30 19:40
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Entered by: Brock
http://www.modbee.com/state_wire/story/314106.html
http://www.ktnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8403746
http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=8403736
Article
5-30-2008
2 COMMENTS
2008-05-30 17:52
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Entered by: Chip Saunders
Ooh, ooh,...let me get my popcorn and some beer so I can sit back and watch the fireworks!!

I'd pay admission to see this!!