If RP ideals win, and the above does NOT happen, then you can be sure that, even though Ron Paul himself might have been sincere, that the whole system among the people has gone so far into corruption, that all freedom and liberty as once known in the early days of America, will be lost.

REPLY: I have tried my best to in the limited time that I have on the internet.

(2) Mr. Renzulli continues to rely on a federal judge's opinion, itself not "peer-reviewed," as though it were holy writ on matters of science.

REPLY: Which is based on the facts of the case surrounding the issue itself. If the gentleman would read the judge's decision he would see all of the facts he Judge sorted out pertaining to the deception of the ID movement and the lies of its proponents (like Michael Behe).

(Mr. Renzulli adverts to the missed possibility of an appeal. Note that an appellate review of a district court decision usually does not examine the accuracy of the evidentiary facts, but only reviews whether the law was properly applied. As a rule, an appellate court does not review the merits of scientific questions.)

REPLY: Based on the legal and scientific facts surrounding the issue.

(3) Mr. Renzulli wrote: "As far as his support of allowing strengths and weaknesses, schools are institutions of learning, not those for presenting alternate views."

Reply: This statement seems as dogmatic as any "religious" school has ever been, with the added punch that he is talking about government funded schools paid by coerced taxes and which minors are required to attend (unless they pay extra for non-government schools). Government-coerced learning ... not open to alternative views ... these ideas don't sound very libertarian to me. (I've been a classical liberal since 1972.)

MIKE REPLY: Consider it "dogmatic" as much as you want. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Furthermore, you also go to show how government schools are being used for social engineering and indoctrination like they always have been since created.

(4) Mr. Renzulli states in the second to last paragraph that he recognizes "reality as it is," but also cites Dr. Stenger who (he says) has "handily" pointed out how science shows that "any phenomenon does not exist."

Reply: Huh? If Dr. Stenger is right – any phenomenon does not exist – then to what "reality as it is" does Mr. Renzulli refer? The two ideas are contradictory. Mr. Renzulli advances them both.

REPLY: I forgot to include PARANORMAL phenomenon such as psychics. Otherwise, Dr. Stenger's book is a sound treatsie on rebutting claims of God's existence and the science of un-intelligent design.

The founder of Objectivism, Ayn Rand, wrote: "Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong." This naked contradiction indicates something in Mr. Renzulli's position has definitely gone awry.

MIKE REPLY: Ms. Rand also stated in a Ford Hall Forum speech:

"[Immanuel] Kant did not seek to subordinate science to religion: he merely sought to establish their epistemological equality. Wishing to save religion (particularly religious morality) from the onslaughts of science, he gave his followers the intellectual ammunition that enabled them to claim that the discoveries of science were no better, no more certain, no more valid than their mystic revelations. That is all he had to do. That is all the 'creationists' demand: just equality. The equality of science and religion -- i.e., the equality of reason and faith."

(5) Mr. Renzulli accuses me of being "mired in empiricism."

Reply: According to the Merriam Webster online dictionary, the definition of "empiricism" that applies here is: "the practice of relying on observation and experiment especially in the natural sciences."

MIKE REPLY: Dictionary.com also advises that empiricism is: "undue reliance upon experience, as in medicine (aka quackery)."

Of all the ad hominem attacks Mr. Renzulli could have leveled at me, calling me "mired" in the "practice of relying on observation and experiment in the natural sciences" is about the nicest insult I've ever received.

MIKE REPLY: Actually no, it was a nice way of saying you are delving into quackery.

Leaving the last word to Mr. Renzulli, let me conclude: I don't care if Mr. Renzulli remains an atheist whose mind cannot be changed.

Its not that my mind cannot be changed, like I said in my previous response, I have read extensively on this issue and (as the quote from Ayn Rand indicates above) ID isn't just an attack on science it is also grounded in a Kantian defense of faith over reason.

I do care that absolute global generalizations and ad hominem attacks, acid-laced but lacking either supporting facts or coherent logic, are published by the Freedoms Phoenix as though they carry intellectual weight.

Ad hominem attacks? I am not the one arguing for proposing or supporting spoon feeding kids pseudo scientific theories based on non-factual claims.

I know b*llsh*t when I see it and am outspoken when I work to stop it.

I also oppose the misrepresentation of Intelligent Design as occurred in Mr. Renzulli's post. You don't have to like ID, but please don't just hurl insults and lie about it.

I haven't misrepresented anything related to ID and I would also note that you have not shown anything to prove me wrong just like ID scientists will not submit their findings to journals like Science or Nature.

I know the story is sensational but it's putting holes in our credibility with stuff like this turning up.

So, stop telling people about Larry, and start telling them about Obama's globalist ideology, his CFR connections, his collusion with the Clintons at Bilderberg, his plan to let the UN disarm and tax Americans to fund globalist policy, his plan to nuke Iran, etc....

The R3VOLution's strength was from its spontaneously chaotic uncontrolled action from individuals conceiving of some action and then carrying it out with or without others assistance. Nothing can stop that. In fact, it makes it more fun if someone tries.

No one controls the R3VOLution except you. You either continue to participate in those things you think will promote your liberty or you don't. You now know you can. You know how. You know you are not alone. You know the bad guys are not going to just allow you to express yourself. You know how much fun it is when you do something and the authoritays object. You know how much punch you can get for little cost while making the bad guys spend capital.

Now the question is are you willing to keep it up? Since Ron Paul's campaign is over, I think I will go out and hang a Ron Paul sign. Not to support Ron Paul's campaign. But to let the bad guys know it ain't over until everyone agrees it is over. And I am not finished.

Claire Wolfe wisely wrote a great collection of books centered around the theme that it is too late to change things, but too early to shoot the bastards. The R3VOLution is what you do while you wait for the revolution. To let the bad guys know you know. To let others know they are not alone in their doubts. To overtly provide examples of what to do for the imitators. To inspire. To continually ask the question, 'is it time yet?'

So please support Dr. Paul in his new endeavors if you wish. Or sit back and lurk. Or as I hope, continue to do your own R3VOLution. In the end it was always about you: your life, your liberty and your property. You choose. Welcome to the party.

Bottom line: The R3VOLUTION has been roiling under the surface for a long time now - it has only recently overcome it's fear of the 'powers that be' and picked up it's banner and shown it's face in public.

Don't stop now.

Join us at San Tan Flat in Queen Creek June 18th and see for yourself that "The R3VOLUTION isn't all just about Ron Paul anymore!"

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/7/calendar/8107122/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPvCkwN3JSg

It is not the Republican Party. It is not the Democrat Party. It is the Washington Party. And the party's on you.

This means that for the rich it will simply be life as usual for as long as the oil is available. For the poor it will be a matter of extreme hardship and a definite life-changing experience learning how to live without gasoline and oil, and the resources that go along with it.

I see a definite two-tier class structure coming about.

There is still enough reserves in Alaska, the 48, and off-shore, to last many generations. Fear.is binding us to ignore Reality and endure a self-imposed lack.

Good stewardship would encourage creative progression into other energy sources, easily within the space-time allowance of nature. We need to wise-up to the fearful ignorant control-freaks.

a follower of The Lion of Judah

He has seen what the Cons have been doing to his Delegates at the state conventions so he sees that he will NOT be able to pull an Abe Lincoln.

Starting this Campaign for Liberty is great because it will help to get Paul-like politicians elected. It is NOT necessarily just Republicans that this new group will raise funds for.

I will raise funds for any Liberty minded person running for office if they are in line with Dr. Paul's beliefs and his supporter's beliefs.

This is even better than the Presidency since now we will have people in the Senate and House that will vote with Dr. Paul. At least he will have people that he can work with and as a group they can get the other Representatives to vote more Constitutionally.

ONLY A Doctor WILL HEAL Our Country,
Freedom4America

PS: We are keeping our signs up because even if Dr. Paul is NOT running any more our signs are still correct because they say "Ron Paul, Hope for America, Be a part of it".

Forming this new group is still Hope for America and probably even more than just the Presidency.

I was for PAUL back in 1988. I wanted him this time around. I feel that he did NOT fight back hard enough to try to get some COVERAGE when the mass media tried to block him OUT.

Why the heck he wants to get some neo CON artists or so called Republicans to form something else is beyond me!

The Rs and the Ds are NOT what they were many years ago. LESSER of the EVILS is STILL EVIL. They agree in so many things with slight differences.

They are NWO control freaks that care more about their globalist views than the USA! They LOVE to shred the Constitution and you know what GWB called it, eh?

Personally, it was a sad day for me MANY months ago when RON did NOT fight back. This proves what I told some people what would happen.

The R PARTY can't stand Dr. Paul and has screwed him. The mass media screwed him along with Dennis K. WHY Paul wants to remain a R is beyond me! ONLY his Texas R people like him as Dr. NO!

The R Party LEFT many of us years ago. They LEFT REAL gun and freedom lovers. They LEFT what they stood for many years ago and became something mighty STRANGE!

They left the Constitution and they shredded it when they supported national and foreign policies that any freedom lover would fight AGAINST and mourn.

Personally... I am upset with Paul. I am FED UP and upset with politics in general. I am fed up with the SHEEP that vote for these NWO control freaks in ANY PARTY. They are traitors to the Constitution and traitors to this REPUBLIC.

Catherine - Montana

Gee, I don't think that it is too political. It is about GUN issues and I thought that GUN issues in D.C. had to do with a gun board. Plus the fact, that the bad guy can WALK IN and not be stopped by a checkpoint.

They claim that this has to do with fighting GUN VIOLENCE and that is why they want these checkpoints ala Orwell's 1984 and WW2 stops!

NWO R and NWO D people are so bad for this country and FREEDOM in general not only in GUN RIGHTS!

Too bad that the sheep don't wake up. Lesser of the evils is still EVIL in candidates.

Catherine - Armed and Female - Montana

Another one of many gun boards where they don't want to discuss 'politics' anymore. TRY to discuss gun issues and gun rights and NOT get political! Pretty difficult.

Amazing, eh?

I wonder if MR will be considered a HOME GROWN TERRORIST now and thrown in jail? Any bets that what HE said will be IGNORED but if any ordinary gun person said this... we would be considered a THREAT! After all it would be against the GWB's Iraq War and it would be anti American to some of the NWO control freaks in the R and D parties!

Catherine - Armed and Female - Montana
PS: M. R. gives gun owners and gun nuts in general a very bad name!

That's alright, it leaves the rest of the people for the r3VOLution to work on :)

Trust me. :)

"Ron Pauls' Presidential Campaign maybe 'suspended' and 'winding down', but to state unequivocally in an article title that "the rEVOLution ends now" is about the most despicable slander I've ever seen! Spin, skew, call it what you will, IT IS A LIE! The R3VOLUTION is alive and well and living in the hearts and minds of MANY disenfranchised Americans that have just gone through an equally despicable MEDIA BLACKOUT of the most principled Statesman to ever run for the office!

Hold on to your socks because the R3VOLUTION is JUST GETTING STARTED!

Call me whatever names you will and let the vilification of Patriots continue - I don't listen to ignorant people anyway..... "

For the record.

Some years ago, former safety advisor to President Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, said: "Not long from now it will be possible to monitor each civilian all the time and have access to a file in which all personal details are available."
All possible information about us is already stored in computer systems. Within a limited period of time the leaders of this world will take it a step further, and will be able to check all our activities. The current state of technology makes it possible to control the entire world from one power centre. For this purpose they have installed super computers worldwide. These computers are being used to store and check the personal information and activities of the entire world population. In an interview, Nicholas Rockefeller stated that the elite's ultimate goal is to create a micro-chipped population

The machinations of the Elite are beginning to show more clearly. The elite's ultimate goal is to create a microchipped population. The Elite is able to advance its control over mankind because it is watching the entire world population.

Electronic surveillance of the population has long since ceased being a theory. Ever since the 9/11 attacks civilians have become more aware of such invasive surveillances. Full body scans at airports and cameras in the streets; today have become normal occurrences. We are now in the trial stage of the Elite. They have super computers and satellites that monitor all human activity on a rotating twenty-four seven-day basis . The technology of satellite cameras is so far advanced that even from space they can distinguish minute and specific details as the brand of softball being played at a park, to the make of a car. This technology was already in use in 1956. With a very sophisticated camera, the famous high altitude reconnaisance U.S. aircraft U-2 could look down from an altitude of 8 miles and read and photograph the headlines of a newspaper.
Global Positioning System (GPS) uses twenty-four satellites for orientation on and above the earth. These satellites are also used to monitor telephone traffic and computer communication. Because of the built-in computer chips in passports, credit cards and identity cards, anyone can be followed and monitored anywhere in the world. It won't be long before there is no place left to hide. For years we have been told that the chip only ensures our safety and that it's primarily meant to fight terrorism, causing good and cautionary civilians to let down their guard. But who decides who qualifies as a terrorist? These chips contain our detailed personal information, making us a global community that's completely under surveillance. This type of State control by far exceeds the visions of George Orwell!

Soon, the first step toward total control of civilians will be taken. It won't be long before we shall witness a world void of cash money, causing the current money and banking system to loose its validity. Not long from now an electronic chip card will make cash transactions obsolete. We are already being exposed to the high costs of monetary flow within the European Union (in 2006 a staggering fifty billion euros). In the near future we will be prepared for the 'Single Euro Payments Area' (SEPA). This will lead to the gradual disappearance of all national currencies such as bank and credit cards and, starting in 2008 the introduction of a 'Universal Biometrics Card', which will be used similarly in all member states .
However, the Universal Biometrics Card, which will contain all of our personal data, will not survive for a long period of time but will merely function as an intermediary stage for its successor, which has been awaiting its turn since the seventies.
The Card will, of course, cause problems. One of those problems is what to do when the card is lost, damaged or stolen. There will be nothing one can do, as there will no longer be another tender.

Our leaders will continue to first cause trouble, and then offer solutions which befit their aspired goal: a complete control and marking of each individual civilian by means of a microchip! This microchip is a minute plate that contains a unique identification number that will be linked to an external database containing additional information about the host of the chip in question.

The microchip, developed by our leaders, will be implanted beneath the skin. Because the chip will charge itself from fluctuations in the human body temperature, the forehead, just below the hairline is the best spot to implant. The microchip is invisible to the naked eye and stores all information important to our leaders. Infrared sensors that can read the chip will be placed everywhere.

The already existing super computers have been programmed to process the chip's information. The microchips will be read worldwide at the mere command of a sensor twenty-four hours a day via satellites, making it easy to thus locate the position of every world citizen. Already the microchip is being put to the test in many places in the world: in the Malaysian capital Singapore, tens of thousands of people have tested the chip! In Mexico the National Migration Institute has said it will introduce electronic registration for foreigners entering the country through the southern border to curb illegal immigration. In a communique, the institute said Biochip implants would be used to control the entry of workers and visitors from Belize and Guatemala from March 2008.

In the Netherlands the Christian Union stated in a memo published on 20 May 2005 about the microchip; that the government can never obligate a civilian to have such a chip implanted. The memo also discusses the possible dangers of the technological developments around the identification techniques. According to the Union there should be a law in which is stipulated that no Dutch person may be forced to have a chip implanted. Nevertheless, Holland will be the first country where the chip will be formerly introduced . Governments will give us plenty arguments as to why it is of great importance for everyone to be implanted with this chip. The ultimate goal will be that every newborn will be chipped automatically following birth. Anyone who refuses the chip will be cast aside socially, politically, religiously and financially; he or she will no longer have access to the electronic banking system and will therefore no longer be able to buy or sell. The chip will enable its installers total surveillance control of world citizens!