Letters to the Editor • Arizona's Top News

ARS 13-2412A: "Show me your papers"

• Article
Ernie,  
 
When ARS 13-2412A passed the legislature, I believed it would be stopped in the Rules committee.  Originally, the bill would not have required that a law be broken for law enforcement to demand identification.  I voted for Bill Brotherton\'s amendment in Judiciary for that standard.  After committee, Brotherton asked me why I just didn\'t help defeat the bill, rather than water it down.  I assumed the Rules Committee would do their job and rule that it was not proper for consideration.  Without the Brotherton amendment, it would have failed in the Senate Judiciary Committee.   Identifying terrorists is a worthy goal (as supposed by the author of the legislation), but the misapplication of the law is unconstitutional.   
 
State Senator Jack Harper

Editors Reply

Jack Harper is a Senator in the Arizona Legislature. 

4 Comments in Response to

Comment by Brock
Entered on:
From Harry Browne's 7 Vital Principles of Government:

"3. You don't control government. It's easy to think of the perfect law that will stop the bad guys while leaving the good guys unhindered. But no law will be written the way you have in mind, it won't be administered the way you have in mind, and it won't be adjudicated the way you have in mind.

Your ideal law will be written by politicians for political purposes, administered by bureaucrats for political purposes, and adjudicated by judges appointed for political purposes. So don't be surprised if the new law turns out to do exactly the opposite of what you thought you were supporting."

With kudos to Mr. Harper for taking the time to reflect on this issue (I'm sure he's the only legislator who will), the takeaway should not be that legislation and application did not go as he intended, but rather that protecting people from violence by institutionalizing violence doesn't even sound good on paper.

Comment by kenneth bond
Entered on:

How many legislators actually know the purpose of government as stated in the Arizona Constitution? Many say it is to keep order? To enforce statutes? To ensure that society is protected. Yet, the real purpose of Government is stated in the Arizona Constitution as follows: The purpose of government is to protect and maintain individual rights. I would suggest that less than 1% of our legislators have read that. I would sugggest further that probably no police office has read it. When the jargon was changed from peace officer to Law enforcement, the principle of protecting and maintianing individual rights went out the window. This is evident in the manner of dress of the police reminiscent of storm troopers of an earlier age.

Comment by Ernest Hancock
Entered on:

BTW - Jack Harper is an Arizona Senator in the state legislature.

Comment by Ernest Hancock
Entered on:
Jack,

This law was always going to be abused.

You know what I'm going to say... "What the heck did you think was going to happen?"

Do you really count on legislators to take the Constitutions into consideration at all any more when they _want_ something?

Strong defense of freedom should be the default position of any legislator... 'should'.

I'll be writing my own story after I've had a couple of days to sort out my thoughts and emotions, that were created by what I saw.

Marc Victor and I have been friends since 1994 when he first started being a lawyer. Just out of law school he was ready to take on "The Man". What was so refreshing was that he knew who "The Man" was.

Over the years I have represented myself in over a dozen cases suing the government for various blantant violations of civil liberties as my only peaceful option to demonstrate just how far we've come from the country we are propagandized into believing we still live in. I've argued before the 9th circuit and every level below that (and I am not a lawyer), so I am very familiar with how the system is used to justify the actions of government and its agents that would send any other individual to jail. I know first hand how our law enforcement and judicial systems work together to subvert individual rights whenever it suits their purpose.

As a good friend of Marc's I have hear many horror stories of injustices done good people for no other reason than it served the interests of government and its agents,... with absolutely no regard for the rights of the individuals for whom their positions exist to serve. But what I saw happen has solidified my understanding of the inevitable demonstration of 'no-confidence' in our governmental systems by the people of.... everywhere.

Marc told me that once when he was asked by another lawyer who the prosecutor was on a case he was defending, he answered with two names. The prosecutor and the judge. I understand what he meant but I was not prepared for the emotion I felt when exposed to such a blatant example.

I doubt that Scottsdale is unique in this regard. What i fear in the immediate term is the erosion of public support for law enforcement at just the time that many are going to be looking to them for justice as the time of increasing injustices envelops us.

I saw a culture that wore both a Robe and a Badge. I can't imagine that they are done with Shelton. Such a glove to the face of "The Man" will not go unanswered... they can't help themselves. Videos taken at the scene and inside the walls of detention won't always be around (at least not where they are seen).

Marc said a few things after the trial as we stood around in circle quieter than usual, trying to absorb what just happened. "That officer had absolutely no training in the correct way to interpret that law. He thinks we are living in Nazi Germany,..... we _are_ living in Nazi Germany!"

So Jack, I hope you can understand why I don't shrink from from being called an 'anarchist',... it's because all I can think of is how much more freedom we would enjoy compared to the spirit killing creature we have devouring our souls now.



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